Slow boot with DVD (Cerbios and IDE2SATA)

[UltimateMe]

I'm messing around with my own Xbox OG and have a modchip with Cerbios in it. I also changed the default hard drive with a SATA 160GB version and an IDE2SATA adapter with 80 wires 40 pins IDE cable.

The boot is slow and yes I know the cheap IDE2SATA adapters can be annoying. But I used the exact same adapter in other Xboxes and they work fine.

So, I did some testing. With the DVD drive attached (in the cerbios.ini it is defined as DriveSetup = 1 (which is HDD & No DVD (Legacy Mode)) the boot time is 42 seconds.
When I detach the DVD drive, the boot time is aprox 20 to 21 seconds before the full EvolutionX dash is loaded.

I tried several DVD drives (the one original in this Xbox is a Thompson, but I also tried Philips, Samsung) and the load time is with the DVD drive attached always 42 seconds and without at max 21 seconds. I also tried another 80 wires 40 pins IDE cable a had laying around, but same issue.

Because I sometimes use the DVD drive I can`t eliminate it, so I'm out of ideas. If the adapter was also slow without the DVD, I would suspect that to be the problem, but in this case the performance without the DVD is fine (I also tested the adapter in a PC and it has good throughput). So if anyone has an idea to check and improve the time with the DVD attached it would be nice.

[Bowlsnapper]

3 hours ago, UltimateMe said:

I'm messing around with my own Xbox OG and have a modchip with Cerbios in it. I also changed the default hard drive with a SATA 160GB version and an IDE2SATA adapter with 80 wires 40 pins IDE cable.

The boot is slow and yes I know the cheap IDE2SATA adapters can be annoying. But I used the exact same adapter in other Xboxes and they work fine.

So, I did some testing. With the DVD drive attached (in the cerbios.ini it is defined as DriveSetup = 1 (which is HDD & No DVD (Legacy Mode)) the boot time is 42 seconds.
When I detach the DVD drive, the boot time is aprox 20 to 21 seconds before the full EvolutionX dash is loaded.

I tried several DVD drives (the one original in this Xbox is a Thompson, but I also tried Philips, Samsung) and the load time is with the DVD drive attached always 42 seconds and without at max 21 seconds. I also tried another 80 wires 40 pins IDE cable a had laying around, but same issue.

Because I sometimes use the DVD drive I can`t eliminate it, so I'm out of ideas. If the adapter was also slow without the DVD, I would suspect that to be the problem, but in this case the performance without the DVD is fine (I also tested the adapter in a PC and it has good throughput). So if anyone has an idea to check and improve the time with the DVD attached it would be nice.

... Would you be willing to buy a startech for diagnostic purposes? In this case, seeing if a different controller eliminates the issue so you can know that that's what it is? I know you say you haven't had problems with the cheap adapters you're buying, but maybe it's this particular one. Maybe it's that particular Xbox hardware combination: that particular DVD drive with that particular motherboard and that particular cheap adapter. Maybe it's just that unique combination.

Boot time shouldn't be that long unless your dashboard is caching for the first time.

[Marty]

Try Cerbios with a different UDMA mode.

[UltimateMe]

12 hours ago, Bowlsnapper said:

... Would you be willing to buy a startech for diagnostic purposes? In this case, seeing if a different controller eliminates the issue so you can know that that's what it is? I know you say you haven't had problems with the cheap adapters you're buying, but maybe it's this particular one. Maybe it's that particular Xbox hardware combination: that particular DVD drive with that particular motherboard and that particular cheap adapter. Maybe it's just that unique combination.

Boot time shouldn't be that long unless your dashboard is caching for the first time.

Startech is hard to get here at the moment. I've ordered a DeLock which seems to be tested in the community as good alternative, it will come in next week. But besided of that: without the DVD the performance is good, and the adapter is also tested in a PC and has good performance, so I don`t expect the adapter to be the problem. But I'm curious if the DeLock changes something.

12 hours ago, Marty said:

Try Cerbios with a different UDMA mode.

I'm using UDMA4, which is the way to go with this adapter. No changes with lower UDMA modes.

[MilkMan2004]

I know it sounds simple but is the slave/master jumper on the sata adapter set correctly?

[UltimateMe]

11 minutes ago, MilkMan2004 said:

I know it sounds simple but is the slave/master jumper on the sata adapter set correctly?

Yep. And with all my testing I tried several options

[Bowlsnapper]

7 hours ago, UltimateMe said:

Yep. And with all my testing I tried several options

Where on earth do you LIVE? LOL

[bolofski]

I had this exact issue with some 'm03c' cheapo adapters a while back (and i posted on here about it), never did get it sorted and ive still got the adapters somewhere, so if you do get it sorted please post how!

[UltimateMe]

Well, one of my colleagues had a Startech adapter and also a adapter with a JMicron chipset. So I tested both.

- The adapter with the JMicron chipset is slower than my el-cheapo (but it was not the most cheap one). It's 5+ seconds slower than the cheaper one. But again more slow with the DVD attached (same as with the cheap one)

- The Startech was a bit faster, but not more than 3 seconds than the cheap one. But again the same problem that it is much slower with the DVD attached

So I'm not sure what is causing this issues. Also tried with the adapters several settings (jumper on master, slave or none). But the issue persists. As mentioned in the OP, I also tried different DVD drives. Out of ideas at this moment.

[Bowlsnapper]

4 hours ago, UltimateMe said:

Well, one of my colleagues had a Startech adapter and also a adapter with a JMicron chipset. So I tested both.

- The adapter with the JMicron chipset is slower than my el-cheapo (but it was not the most cheap one). It's 5+ seconds slower than the cheaper one. But again more slow with the DVD attached (same as with the cheap one)

- The Startech was a bit faster, but not more than 3 seconds than the cheap one. But again the same problem that it is much slower with the DVD attached

So I'm not sure what is causing this issues. Also tried with the adapters several settings (jumper on master, slave or none). But the issue persists. As mentioned in the OP, I also tried different DVD drives. Out of ideas at this moment.

@KaosEngineer Have you seen the IDE controller go bad before? Could this be a case of bad DVD ROM capacitors junking up the bus and dragging it down? I obviously am bothered by the fact that the boot to es are halved but still very long without the DVD drive...

[sweetdarkdestiny]

Solder a 100 ohm resistor to R4. Someone on Discord wrote there that this solved the boot delay.

Quote

I found that populating R4 with a 100 ohm resistor solves the boot delay and the board now preforms, subjectively, as well as the Startech adapter and is almost stable at UDMA6.

 

[Bowlsnapper]

2 hours ago, sweetdarkdestiny said:

Solder a 100 ohm resistor to R4. Someone on Discord wrote there that this solved the boot delay.

 

If that really works, then that's COOL.

[UltimateMe]

If I have some free time I will try it. Need to look for a 100 ohm resistor, but that will be manageable 

A small, tidy job I see. Need some loupe too.

Edited October 17, 2023 by UltimateMe

[Bowlsnapper]

1 hour ago, UltimateMe said:

If I have some free time I will try it. Need to look for a 100 ohm resistor, but that will be manageable 

A small, tidy job I see. Need some loupe too.

I'm sure you can buy 2,000 for like 5 bucks. Lol.

[UltimateMe]

22 hours ago, Bowlsnapper said:

I'm sure you can buy 2,000 for like 5 bucks. Lol.

$ 0,40 per 10, so no But with manageable I mean an option to get them fast, but found some reliable company, so will have them with a day.

[bolofski]

Well im gonna try it too, ive found the adapters out and R4 is empty on them so ive ordered 100 x 100 ohm surface mounted for the grand price of £1.60 delivered, we shall see!

[sweetdarkdestiny]

As a side note. RH1 is populated with a 103 (10kohm) smd reistor on the known JP103-05 adapters. AND another difference between them is the JP103-05 uses 470uf caps. The ultra cheapo uses 220uf caps. 

Me asked @SS_Davesome time ago about them and he said it would not hurt so change the 220 for 470. 

 

[Bowlsnapper]

Upgrading the cheapos is a fine idea! If we can push them to UDMA 6 that would be ultra sick for ultra cheap! Only some resoldering needed

[UltimateMe]

Well, I added the boot animations, so that makes things a bit slower. But populated R4 with a 100 ohm SMD resistor.

And from 52 seconds with boot animation to 25 seconds with the boot animation. So yes, this hack fixes the slowness of the cheaper adapters.
Maybe without DVD it is even faster than that, but at this moment I don`t have time to do all those checks

I didn`t changed anything else on the adapter. But for a few cents the slowness can  be fixed and then I'm wondering why they don`t do it at production... that few cents will not prevent people buying it.

 

Edited October 20, 2023 by UltimateMe

[bolofski]

the resistor fix works! my resistors turned up this morning, good job i ordered 100 coz the first one i opened pinged off somewhere and vanished, but yeah the fix works!!, so ive got enough resistors to do another 98

[Bowlsnapper]

1 hour ago, bolofski said:

the resistor fix works! my resistors turned up this morning, good job i ordered 100 coz the first one i opened pinged off somewhere and vanished, but yeah the fix works!!, so ive got enough resistors to do another 98

What ended up being the performance increase on your unit? Have you tried upping the UDMA?