What is the root cause of disc scratches from an xbox original dvd drive?

[Aero_105]

The xbox dvd drive is SDG-605B version B it scratches discs.  Refer to discScratches.JPG the scratches are not circular.  I am trying to pin point the root cause of the damage.  The xbox must of been dropped.  The optical pickup head must be causing the scratches but I don't see any raised sharp edges that would cause those marks.  The dvd drive reads both cd's and dvd's but they get damaged in the process.  The xbox original is TSOP so the only use I have for the drive is formatting the hdd.  I thought I would disassemble the dvd drive and compare it to an identical drive.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1B0_VHvgu-ACzN3azkw6Aq4r6GdUQbuLW?usp=drive_link

A.JPG is the dvd drive scratching discs

B.JPG is a reference drive identical to A.JPG

[Bowlsnapper]

2 hours ago, Aero_105 said:

The xbox dvd drive is SDG-605B version B it scratches discs.  Refer to discScratches.JPG the scratches are not circular.  I am trying to pin point the root cause of the damage.  The xbox must of been dropped.  The optical pickup head must be causing the scratches but I don't see any raised sharp edges that would cause those marks.  The dvd drive reads both cd's and dvd's but they get damaged in the process.  The xbox original is TSOP so the only use I have for the drive is formatting the hdd.  I thought I would disassemble the dvd drive and compare it to an identical drive.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1B0_VHvgu-ACzN3azkw6Aq4r6GdUQbuLW?usp=drive_link

A.JPG is the dvd drive scratching discs

B.JPG is a reference drive identical to A.JPG

Hmmm, if the scratches were consistent and in a circular motion, then I would say something in the drive is gouging during rotation. But since these are short mini-scratches in random locations, in different directions and do not encompass the entire circumference of the disc, I'm skeptical that the drive is what's actually causing them. Not saying you're a liar, but I'm very, very confused if you're putting in clean discs and they are coming out with random small scratches...

Guess that's why you're here, huh?

[HDShadow]

Random small scratches like those are clearly not concentric, as ^ has pointed out, can not be caused when the disc is spinning.

If we rule out consistently poor handling by the OP then the only other cause that might produce random direction scratches is during the tray ejecting or closing/loading. Something in the tray? Grit or a raised plastic burr?

How are the discs stored? In plastic sleeves or proper CD/DVD cases? Are the disc left on any surface prior loading into the tray? Are the carefully placed down into the centre of the tray or are they sometimes slid into it or the tray closed when they're not correctly positioned?

I scratched my perfect condition Timesplitters FP disc accidentally just doing the latter once and whilst only the faintest, non-concentric scratch it is obviously just in the wrong place as it will not boot in any Xbox I own.

I'd test a pristine, new, blank CD, just closing and immediately ejecting the tray a few times to see if that causes anything similar.

I suppose it could still be the laser carriage if the tray is not going in level (unevenly worn runners?) or, more likely, is warped and the damage is occurring just before the disc is clamped and starts to spin up. But it seems very unlikely as the timing of the contact causing the scratches would have to occur for only a fraction of a second before the disc was spinning as the scratching would be concentric or partially concentric.

     

[Aero_105]

18 hours ago, HDShadow said:

If we rule out consistently poor handling by the OP then the only other cause that might produce random direction scratches is during the tray ejecting or closing/loading. Something in the tray? Grit or a raised plastic burr?

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1B0_VHvgu-ACzN3azkw6Aq4r6GdUQbuLW?usp=drive_link
 

C.JPG and D.JPG is a game disc that was twice ripped using dvd to xbox application with the damaged dvd drive.

E.JPG is a blank dvd-r that has been inserted and ejected 10 times with the dvd drive.

Discs are stored in game cases.  CD and DVD installers are stored in plastic sleeves.  

CD installer is still subject to scratches not as many and not as deep as the game disc but the game disc was in the xbox for longer time.  The lens itself does not look like it

is scuffed up or making contact with the disc.  The marks on the disc do look like they are from a sharp metal edge.  There is nothing in the tray to cause marks on the disc.

 

 

[prtscn]

flimsy hands

scratches are random. You would see circular scratches if it was dvd.

show dvd tray.

[Aero_105]

20 hours ago, prtscn said:

show dvd tray.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1B0_VHvgu-ACzN3azkw6Aq4r6GdUQbuLW?usp=drive_link

F.JPG is dvd tray

lensOperation.avi just under 300mb file. It is a video of lens operation when starting xbox.

I removed the dvd drive cover and used top platter piece to keep the discs in place when testing.  I played an audio cd and played the cd with random music tracks and noticed no scratches.  So it must be the drive not braking when ejecting a disc.  I wonder if it could be that the gearing is off by a tooth or two?  Is there any other tests I could do?
 

[Bowlsnapper]

3 hours ago, Aero_105 said:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1B0_VHvgu-ACzN3azkw6Aq4r6GdUQbuLW?usp=drive_link

F.JPG is dvd tray

lensOperation.avi just under 300mb file. It is a video of lens operation when starting xbox.

I removed the dvd drive cover and used top platter piece to keep the discs in place when testing.  I played an audio cd and played the cd with random music tracks and noticed no scratches.  So it must be the drive not braking when ejecting a disc.  I wonder if it could be that the gearing is off by a tooth or two?  Is there any other tests I could do?
 

This problem makes my balls hurt. I have no idea what it could be... This HAS to be figured out!

[Aero_105]

Could not figure out the cause of the disc scratches.  I'll end up using the dvd drive for formatting hdd's only with installer discs and leave it at that.

[Bowlsnapper]

6 hours ago, Aero_105 said:

Could not figure out the cause of the disc scratches.  I'll end up using the dvd drive for formatting hdd's only with installer discs and leave it at that.

Shit. I wanted to know what this was.

[UltimateMe]

When I see the pictures one of the things came in mind, is cleaning the surrounding area very good. It looks like it isn`t clean around the moving parts.

[Bowlsnapper]

1 hour ago, UltimateMe said:

When I see the pictures one of the things came in mind, is cleaning the surrounding area very good. It looks like it isn`t clean around the moving parts.

Moving parts should not be making contact in a way that would cause frictional damage in the first place...

[UltimateMe]

4 hours ago, Bowlsnapper said:

Moving parts should not be making contact in a way that would cause frictional damage in the first place...

Rubbish will not always stay where you think it stays. When the laser is moving, the tray is moving, every movement can cause issues when there is rubbish around there. So when the scratches are not circular, clean everything at the max and check again.

[Bowlsnapper]

7 hours ago, UltimateMe said:

Rubbish will not always stay where you think it stays. When the laser is moving, the tray is moving, every movement can cause issues when there is rubbish around there. So when the scratches are not circular, clean everything at the max and check again.

The laser assembly is moving, yes, but that should cause circular patterns at that point, once the disc is all the way in the drive and mounted to the spindle.

[UltimateMe]

9 hours ago, Bowlsnapper said:

The laser assembly is moving, yes, but that should cause circular patterns at that point, once the disc is all the way in the drive and mounted to the spindle.

Maybe read again what I actually wrote

[corona2222]

loose filaments/dirt/dust/objects in the DVD drive thrown up when it spins may explain scratches in different directions 

confirm by taking off the DVD drive cover, look inside, use a swab and Isopropyl swab a bit and see 

 

Edited August 8, 2023 by corona2222

[Bowlsnapper]

7 hours ago, UltimateMe said:

Maybe read again what I actually wrote

Why would the tray move in a way that scratches the disc... In some places where it doesn't even touch it. The tray moves open and closed...

[UltimateMe]

15 hours ago, Bowlsnapper said:

Why would the tray move in a way that scratches the disc... In some places where it doesn't even touch it. The tray moves open and closed...

Again you didn`t read the whole statement I made. As I mentioned: the tray moves, the laser assembly moves. Every movement, if it's the tray opening and closing or the laser going back an forth, will cause particles going everywhere. So again: the laser is giving circular scratches, dust and other rubbish causes all kind of scratches. When the laser moves from the back to the front and there is rubbish in between it would cause scratches more from the outside to the inside of the disk, which is the case here, looking at the photo's. A disc is never 100% stable in its drive and always moves a little bit.

So do you have those kinds of scratches? Thoroughly clean your drive inside.

[trencherfield]

The xbox dvd drives are old as we know, I have stacks of them and have seen very odd behaviour from various models. Odd partial ejects and re-closing by itself.

The carriage mechanism is usually geared so that on eject the cradle is forced down out the way to avoid collisions as the tray starts to move. I've seen Samsungs try to get this out of sync, but the cradle is slotted, so it goes bonkers instead. Usually firmware corruption... PCB caps etc and other stuff.

The only way to get those perpendicular marks is the disc stopped and the laser is trying to over focus occasionally once its started reading a genuine disc (not your clear test disc) then increments the carriage at the same time, hence leaving a small mark like that.

To be honest, it's not worth the faff. You'd get more benefit just either swapping the drive out and junking it or delete the DVD totally or find an LG 8163 DVD and flash that, they are great and its what I do.

Junk it and move on.

 

[corona2222]

On 8/6/2023 at 3:14 AM, Aero_105 said:

Is there any other tests I could do?

two bits of equal stickly back plastic tape on opposite sides under the DVD disk (for balance ) see what particles stick to the tape after spinning the drive up and down a few times  alternatively some stick back tape inside the drive see if it collects dust/dirt

[Bowlsnapper]

12 hours ago, UltimateMe said:

Again you didn`t read the whole statement I made. As I mentioned: the tray moves, the laser assembly moves. Every movement, if it's the tray opening and closing or the laser going back an forth, will cause particles going everywhere. So again: the laser is giving circular scratches, dust and other rubbish causes all kind of scratches. When the laser moves from the back to the front and there is rubbish in between it would cause scratches more from the outside to the inside of the disk, which is the case here, looking at the photo's. A disc is never 100% stable in its drive and always moves a little bit.

So do you have those kinds of scratches? Thoroughly clean your drive inside.

I doubt it from the scratches. They would either be completely facing in and out while the disc is not spinning and being loaded or in a circular pattern from rotation. One of the two. Not completely random. There would still be a pattern to it. There are only two rotational states for the drive to be in. I doubt the laser assembly is poking up that much to cause contact and scratches, otherwise the disc probably wouldn't even be able to rotate at all. I don't think it's popping up to push dust into the disc and then settling back down afterward.

And I read your post 3 times and comprehended it fine. Lol. But okay.

[SS_Dave]

The more I look at the pic of the damaged DVD disk the more I don't think the DVD/CD drive could cause that damage, If it was the drive the marks would be either straight across the disk or in a circular pattern. 

As the marks as at different directions it makes me think is the way the disk is stored or handled.

The one little mark on the new disk right on the edge is probably from placing the disk on the tray.

I have been working with all manner of DVD/CD players for 35 plus years and the marks you have shown in 99% of the cases come from the owner and not the player.

I have seen the laser lens hit the disk but that drive would not read the disk for more than a second as it could not read the TOC (Table Of Contents) from the disk ( the metal disk the DVD sits on was pushed down ), That particular drive did leave a very small mark on the disk in a circular pattern right at the centre, I have also seen very light circular marks at the outer edge from a warped DVD disk and you could here a scraping sound as it was playing. Keep in mind that a DVD drive spins the disk  at between 570 RPM and 1600 RPM depending on the laser position.

 

 

Cheers

SS Dave

Soft modding is like masturbating, It gets the job done but it's nothing like the real thing.

 

[Bowlsnapper]

1 hour ago, SS_Dave said:

The more I look at the pic of the damaged DVD disk the more I don't think the DVD/CD drive could cause that damage, If it was the drive the marks would be either straight across the disk or in a circular pattern. 

As the marks as at different directions it makes me think is the way the disk is stored or handled.

The one little mark on the new disk right on the edge is probably from placing the disk on the tray.

I have been working with all manner of DVD/CD players for 35 plus years and the marks you have shown in 99% of the cases come from the owner and not the player.

I have seen the laser lens hit the disk but that drive would not read the disk for more than a second as it could not read the TOC (Table Of Contents) from the disk ( the metal disk the DVD sits on was pushed down ), That particular drive did leave a very small mark on the disk in a circular pattern right at the centre, I have also seen very light circular marks at the outer edge from a warped DVD disk and you could here a scraping sound as it was playing. Keep in mind that a DVD drive spins the disk  at between 570 RPM and 1600 RPM depending on the laser position.

 

 

Cheers

SS Dave

Soft modding is like masturbating, It gets the job done but it's nothing like the real thing.

 

Thank you for confirming that I'm not crazy. Lol