Best Way of Storing/Loading Games?

[ka5ug4]

I've been doing a crazy amount of research, and thanks to how scattered information is, I decided to ask for a "definitive" answer: What is the best way of loading games onto an Xbox?

While I know there are varying definitions of "best" I'm mostly referring to compatibility (no random breakage) and file size (as small as possible.)

I initially assumed that CCI was the best, but due to Repackinator refusing to compress my redump ISOs (unless it was via context menu, but then I had no default.xbe), I looked into the other two methods (XISO and extracted files in a folder)

I personally find it easiest for me to just extract everything with XDVDMulleter and drop it onto my HDD, with the few test games I've used work seemingly perfect, I can't help but wonder if any issues can come from this method?

[Bowlsnapper]

28 minutes ago, ka5ug4 said:

I've been doing a crazy amount of research, and thanks to how scattered information is, I decided to ask for a "definitive" answer: What is the best way of loading games onto an Xbox?

While I know there are varying definitions of "best" I'm mostly referring to compatibility (no random breakage) and file size (as small as possible.)

I initially assumed that CCI was the best, but due to Repackinator refusing to compress my redump ISOs (unless it was via context menu, but then I had no default.xbe), I looked into the other two methods (XISO and extracted files in a folder)

I personally find it easiest for me to just extract everything with XDVDMulleter and drop it onto my HDD, with the few test games I've used work seemingly perfect, I can't help but wonder if any issues can come from this method?

Most of the almost 1000 US titles work just fine in extracted folder/file form. It's what I've ALWAYS done. It just makes the most sense to me. I want access to my files so that I can modify them if I need or want to. There are some games that will not work because of filenames that are too long, or other various reasons, and if you would like to run these games, then you would need to run an ISO of it. 

THERE IS NO REASON TO HAVE YOUR ENTIRE GAME COLLECTION BE ISOS! This is a pointless pain in the ass and you can not modify the game files without a serious extraction and repack process. Fuck that shit. I don't know why people are doing this. I don't know why they think it's fashionable. I don't know if most people think that mad games out there have issues running from the HDD, or if it's faster or something. I don't know, but I think a lot of these people aren't doing thorough research. It's fuckin' pointless. It's not like this feature was added because it was SORELY needed or something and we were just DYING for somebody to save us from the buggy File Monster! It was simply a feature that was wanted by people so they could have a fully working game collection. It wasn't a dire need.

Go ahead and run your File structure, dude. It makes sense, I can confirm that. lol. If you wanna run a game that will not run in File mode, just download the ISO from like, Vimms Lair or something and launch it according to your bios specifications. It is a microscopic fraction of the Xbox's game collection. The only games that have caused problems are like... 20 out of 900.

BIG FUCKIN' DEAL!

[ka5ug4]

4 minutes ago, Bowlsnapper said:

Most of the almost 1000 US titles work just fine in extracted folder/file form. It's what I've ALWAYS done. It just makes the most sense to me. I want access to my files so that I can modify them if I need or want to. There are some games that will not work because of filenames that are too long, or other various reasons, and if you would like to run these games, then you would need to run an ISO of it. 

THERE IS NO REASON TO HAVE YOUR ENTIRE GAME COLLECTION BE ISOS! This is a pointless pain in the ass and you can not modify the game files without a serious extraction and repack process. Fuck that shit. I don't know why people are doing this. I don't know why they think it's fashionable. I don't know if most people think that mad games out there have issues running from the HDD, or if it's faster or something. I don't know, but I think a lot of these people aren't doing thorough research. It's fuckin' pointless. It's not like this feature was added because it was SORELY needed or something and we were just DYING for somebody to save us from the buggy File Monster! It's was simply a feature that was wanted by people so they could have a fully working game collection. It wasn't a dire need.

Go ahead and run your File structure, dude. It makes sense, I can confirm that. lol. If you wanna run a game that will not run in File mode, just download the ISO from like, Vimms Lair or something and launch it according to your bios specifications. No big deal. It is a microscopic fraction of the Xbox's game collection. The only games that have caused problems are like... 20 out of 900. Who fuckin' cares? lol.

I figured as much, but I felt there had to be a reason for people to still be making new format types (CCI), especially when the folder is about as big as the CCI anyways.

Would you happen to know where I could find a list of those 20 or so games? I doubt I have any of them, but just want to be certain and avoid potential headaches (×﹏×)

[Bowlsnapper]

39 minutes ago, ka5ug4 said:

I figured as much, but I felt there had to be a reason for people to still be making new format types (CCI), especially when the folder is about as big as the CCI anyways.

Would you happen to know where I could find a list of those 20 or so games? I doubt I have any of them, but just want to be certain and avoid potential headaches (×﹏×)

Yes, the data sizes are almost the same, so that's not a benefit. You are correct. In fact, I pointed that out earlier today.  Like I said, I don't know why this is catching on so much. It's like people just coming into the scene never knew that it really wasn't much of an issue in the first place... seems like the ones that HAVE been around simply forgot or something... It's like a fad that I'm hoping will pass... like MakeMHZ's non-existent and still unrealized features.

-------------------------------------------------

Toca3 (this one must be a full dd xiso)
Harry Potter: Prisoner of Azkahban
Monster Garage
Tony Hawk: American Wasteland
Tony Hawk: Project 8
Jurassic Park
Fable... without dlc
One of the ESPN 2k5 or 2k6 Games

 

The following games are present on the Origins image and are known to not work for one reason or another, or just have issues:

- Medal of Honor: Frontline - There are many videos that have been removed, I'm assuming due to filenames.
- Fight Night: Round 2 - There's no music in the menu there. 
- Arctic Thunder - Freezes while loading a race
- Midtown Madness is freezing halfway the game if you play washington undercover the mission Diva Manners
- Nightcaster II: Equinox has 5 missing .bik files causing the game to crash
- TOCA 3 has a dirty disc error when playing the world tour (Why ISO is needed)
- Jurassic Park Operation Genesis also has dirty disc error (Why ISO is needed)
- 1 of the unreal tournament games is a prototype game.
-FIFA 07 is freezing
-Return to Castle: Wolfenstein has a dirty disc error while loading a mission

-----------------------------------

It is advised that these games be run from ISOs, in my opinion.  File format does not work well in their case.

 

[Dempsey_86]

With xiso and cci your games are untouched. This way you are sure the game works till the end of the game. I don't know how long you are in the scene but I had a modded xbox back in the day when they where the present console. I can recall one of the star wars kotor games that where freezing mid game because of the long file names. Well the solution then was to use a save game past that mission to play further in the game. Well this things are a pain in the ass anno 2023 when we now have xiso ect. 

Because a lot of the games in folder structure need to be patched you never know if the patching is done right till you play the game till the end. 

There are also games that need to be patched and that there is no patch available. 

Thats where iso and cci come in, with these files you don't have to play the game till the end to know if it will work or not. 

ps @Bowlsnapper your list is not complete, I did mention some extra games after my initial comment to you that need to be xiso. Also for the origins build, I do not remember them all anymore, these are the ones I remembered but there where more problem games on origins.

Edited July 1, 2023 by Dempsey_86

[prtscn]

50 minutes ago, Bowlsnapper said:

Yes, the data sizes are almost the same, so that's not a benefit. You are correct. In fact, I pointed that out earlier today.  Like I said, I don't know why this is catching on so much. It's like people just coming into the scene never knew that it really wasn't much of an issue in the first place... seems like the ones that HAVE been around simply forgot or something... It's like a fad that I'm hoping will pass... like MakeMHZ's non-existent and still unrealized features.

-------------------------------------------------

Toca3 (this one must be a full dd xiso)
Harry Potter: Prisoner of Azkahban
Monster Garage
Tony Hawk: American Wasteland
Tony Hawk: Project 8
Jurassic Park
Fable... without dlc
One of the ESPN 2k5 or 2k6 Games

 

The following games are present on the Origins image and are known to not work for one reason or another, or just have issues:

- Medal of Honor: Frontline - There are many videos that have been removed, I'm assuming due to filenames.
- Fight Night: Round 2 - There's no music in the menu there. 
- Arctic Thunder - Freezes while loading a race
- Midtown Madness is freezing halfway the game if you play washington undercover the mission Diva Manners
- Nightcaster II: Equinox has 5 missing .bik files causing the game to crash
- TOCA 3 has a dirty disc error when playing the world tour (Why ISO is needed)
- Jurassic Park Operation Genesis also has dirty disc error (Why ISO is needed)
- 1 of the unreal tournament games is a prototype game.
-FIFA 07 is freezing
-Return to Castle: Wolfenstein has a dirty disc error while loading a mission

-----------------------------------

It is advised that these games be run from ISOs, in my opinion.  File format does not work well in their case.

 

 games that give dirty disk, because of bad dump floating on the internet (fifa07, desert storm 2). When i extract games file from archival 8GB disk, i get no errors.

Many games can be patched by brute force. Later games, file paths are no readable in HEX editor, only handful of them.

Movies not playing, is because PAL and NTSC versions have specific file names for each region, can be fixed, by injecting missing region files.

 

 

[Dempsey_86]

7 minutes ago, prtscn said:

 games that give dirty disk, because of bad dump floating on the internet (fifa07, desert storm 2). When i extract games file from archival 8GB disk, i get no errors.

This is not for all games the case, toca3 give a dirty disc when you play world tour. The version on origins is patched so you can play world tour but when you come around 50% of the world tour then it trows a dirty disc error. When you make an xiso the old way with quix it also give an dirty disc error. the only way to be sure this game works is to have a full dd xiso or make a xiso/cci with repackinator.

 

 

7 minutes ago, prtscn said:

Many games can be patched by brute force. Later games, file paths are no readable in HEX editor, only handful of them.

Movies not playing, is because PAL and NTSC versions have specific file names for each region, can be fixed, by injecting missing region files.

 

lots of work if you know you can get xiso build over night when you sleep, repackinator build them in batch

Edited July 1, 2023 by Dempsey_86

[Bowlsnapper]

2 minutes ago, Dempsey_86 said:

With xiso and cci your games are untouched. This way you are sure the game works till the end of the game. I don't know how long you are in the scene but I had a modded xbox back in the day when they where the present console. I can recall one of the star wars kotor games that where freezing mid game because of the long file names. Well the solution then was to use a save game past that mission to play further in the game. Well this things are a pain in the ass anno 2023 when we now have xiso ect. 

Because a lot of the games in folder structure need to be patched you never know if the patching is done right till you play the game till the end. 

There are also games that need to be patched and that there is no patch available. 

Thats where iso and cci come in, with these files you don't have to play the game till the end to know if it will work or not. 

ps @Bowlsnapper your list is not complete, I did mention some extra games after my initial comment to you that need to be xiso. Also for the origins build, I do not remember them all anymore, these are the ones I remembered but there where more problem games on origins.

If we come up with a more comprehensive list, then let's post it. I know it's not all of them. But I'm not gonna recommend to this guy that he gets every single game in iso format because a small fraction don't play nice. I don't think he or most people will play every single game in his library and find out the hard way. Evidently almost all the games in Origins were tested and only a handful don't work... Out of over 800 games. The iso necessary games just aren't there. But that's a LOT of games, dude. All the games I've played function fine. So the only opinion I can offer is to keep the file format for most of his games and if he encounters an issue, just download the iso and ftp it to the HDD. Ultimately it'll be his preference, of course... You know what MINE is.

[Dempsey_86]

3 minutes ago, Bowlsnapper said:

You know what MINE is.

Inside joke: We are stil not at the end of the week haha.

I can't make a list because I don't have the origins build anymore, but if you have time you can try and make one. Even if you just see if the game boots to the first level there will be a usefull list. Then people that play the game over time can leave notes if the game keeps working further in the game.

[prtscn]

2 minutes ago, Dempsey_86 said:

This is not for all games the case, toca3 give a dirty disc when you play world tour. The version on origins is patched so you can play world tour but when you come around 50% of the world tour then it trows a dirty disc error. When you make an xiso the old way with quix it also give an dirty disc error. the only way to be sure this game works is to have a full dd xiso or make a xiso/cci with repackinator.

Yes, i'm refering games that require no patching. Since i discovered why i get dirty disk error on desert storm 2, or fifa07 hangs. Now i only dump games from retail disks or full DL dvd iso dumps.

[Bowlsnapper]

2 minutes ago, Dempsey_86 said:

Inside joke: We are stil not at the end of the week haha.

I can't make a list because I don't have the origins build anymore, but if you have time you can try and make one. Even if you just see if the game boots to the first level there will be a usefull list. Then people that play the game over time can leave notes if the game keeps working further in the game.

Thank you for maintaining a sense of humor. I can be a dick about certain topics that I have a strong opinion about... Especially lately. I'm dealing with some shit. Lol. I appreciate it.

I actually want to do this... I'm just scared of killing my HDD! AND it's my X3 console. Lmao. That's a lotta loading... Over 800 games... Maybe I should put on some early 2000s pop punk and just do it. Some Blink-182 might put me in the mood to slog through it.

[Bowlsnapper]

4 minutes ago, prtscn said:

Yes, i'm refering games that require no patching. Since i discovered why i get dirty disk error on desert storm 2, or fifa07 hangs. Now i only dump games from retail disks or full DL dvd iso dumps.

Dude... Do you PLAY those games, though? Is it really worth it? Lol

[prtscn]

1 minute ago, Bowlsnapper said:

Dude... Do you PLAY those games, though? Is it really worth it? Lol

Many PAL game versions works in 480p. It's a good way to cover both NTSC, and PAL when using RGB SCART or composite. And PAL versions games on some instances have advantage over NTSC versions, for example fatal frame. NTSC versions uses different more adult like models, while PAL versions is true to japanese version.

[prtscn]

5 minutes ago, Bowlsnapper said:

Dude... Do you PLAY those games, though? Is it really worth it? Lol

Desert storm 2 is super fun game (4 player coop). "Conflict" series are super fun. FIFA07 uses 720p, its fun to watch how XBOX struggles to render in such high resolution, more like a novelty.

[Bowlsnapper]

4 minutes ago, prtscn said:

Desert storm 2 is super fun game (4 player coop). "Conflict" series are super fun. FIFA07 uses 720p, its fun to watch how XBOX struggles to render in such high resolution, more like a novelty.

Lmao. Try my overclocked bios and see if it helps! UDMA 6 Cerbios. 275mhz NV and 771MHZ CPU. Not a huge gain , but it might help.

If you're actively playing them then use those isos... But will HE? 

BTW, being able to use 720p hacked xbe executables because I have a file layout is nice. 128MB of RAM is coming with my black console... but the HALO CE 720 version works!

cerbios6.bin

[Dempsey_86]

1 hour ago, Bowlsnapper said:

I actually want to do this... I'm just scared of killing my HDD! AND it's my X3 console. Lmao. That's a lotta loading... Over 800 games... Maybe I should put on some early 2000s pop punk and just do it. Some Blink-182 might put me in the mood to slog through it.

You will not kill your hdd by playing games and igr out, if your hdd is killed by doing that it has a problem already.

I did this for the full library of iso games btw, no hdd where killed that way

[Bowlsnapper]

1 minute ago, Dempsey_86 said:

You will not kill your hdd by playing games and igr out, if your hdd is killed by doing that it has a problem already.

I did this for the full library of iso games btw, no hdd where killed that way

Oh I know that. It's just a LOT of loading. I was sorta trying to make a joke.

 I may very well do that if it'll truly help. But hasn't this already been done?

[Dempsey_86]

9 minutes ago, Bowlsnapper said:

Oh I know that. It's just a LOT of loading. I was sorta trying to make a joke.

 I may very well do that if it'll truly help. But hasn't this already been done?

Ah ok, didnt get the joke sorry, Im not native english thats why.

No not that I know of, not documented as I know.

As a lot of people use the origins image it can help them to fix the origins build and replace the not working games.

[Bowlsnapper]

2 minutes ago, Dempsey_86 said:

Ah ok, didnt get the joke sorry, Im not native english thats why.

No not that I know of, not documented as I know.

As a lot of people use the origins image it can help them to fix the origins build and replace the not working games.

Okay. I'll do it. It just may take me a while since I have to be doing basically nothing else. lol.

[arfows]

Is there a comprehensive list out there of the games that are not HDD ready and need an iso/xiso/CCI?  From Bowl's post earlier in this thread & prtscn mentioning Desert Storm i parsed the list below, but based on Dempsey's comment it isn't complete.  Bowl you had talked about going through the 800+ games on Origins and testing to see if they booted, did you ever get through that Herculean task?  I found these two threads and am wondering if these lists are well known/legit or if they are to fix a pack that wasn't well ripped (I do see some of the games from this thread listed in these links).

and this one from the archive

Xbox HDD ready game fixes : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

 

Here are the games mentioned by Bowl and prtscn from earlier in this thread:

Desert Storm 2

An ESPN 2k5 or 2k6 Games (I have about five of these 2K5 HDD ready, I know 2 of them at least load, and can test the others tomorrow).

Fable... without dlc

Harry Potter: Prisoner of Azkahban

Jurassic Park

Monster Garage

Toca3 (this one must be a full dd xiso)
Tony Hawk: American Wasteland
Tony Hawk: Project 8
The following games are present on the Origins image and are known to not work for one reason or another, or just have issues:

- Medal of Honor: Frontline - There are many videos that have been removed, I'm assuming due to filenames.
- Fight Night: Round 2 - There's no music in the menu there. 
- Arctic Thunder - Freezes while loading a race
- Midtown Madness is freezing halfway the game if you play washington undercover the mission Diva Manners
- Nightcaster II: Equinox has 5 missing .bik files causing the game to crash
- TOCA 3 has a dirty disc error when playing the world tour (Why ISO is needed)
- Jurassic Park Operation Genesis also has dirty disc error (Why ISO is needed)
- 1 of the unreal tournament games is a prototype game.
- FIFA 07 is freezing
- Return to Castle: Wolfenstein has a dirty disc error while loading a mission

 

[arfows]

In Rocky’5s emustation downloadeder there are a bunch of updates, mostly title updates. are those the fixes needed for the HDD games that don’t work properly?  He also has some DLC on there with maps and updated rosters etc but I am specifically wondering ask the other stuff outside of that.  
  Additionally, I downloaded some of the updates without having the games already installed but don’t see some of those downloads anywhere in file manager or taking up part of HD storage block so maybe you have to wait to do the updates until you have the game loaded…or maybe In the wrong place.

  Thanks in advance!

[NokSueCow]

2 hours ago, arfows said:

In Rocky’5s emustation downloadeder there are a bunch of updates, mostly title updates. are those the fixes needed for the HDD games that don’t work properly?  He also has some DLC on there with maps and updated rosters etc but I am specifically wondering ask the other stuff outside of that.  
  Additionally, I downloaded some of the updates without having the games already installed but don’t see some of those downloads anywhere in file manager or taking up part of HD storage block so maybe you have to wait to do the updates until you have the game loaded…or maybe In the wrong place.

  Thanks in advance!

It's best to play a game once to generate a save folder, and then download the dlc and updates.

I don't think the downloader TU's will fix broken games.

[Dempsey_86]

On 4/5/2024 at 11:35 AM, arfows said:

Is there a comprehensive list out there of the games that are not HDD ready and need an iso/xiso/CCI?  From Bowl's post earlier in this thread & prtscn mentioning Desert Storm i parsed the list below, but based on Dempsey's comment it isn't complete.  Bowl you had talked about going through the 800+ games on Origins and testing to see if they booted, did you ever get through that Herculean task?  I found these two threads and am wondering if these lists are well known/legit or if they are to fix a pack that wasn't well ripped (I do see some of the games from this thread listed in these links).

and this one from the archive

Xbox HDD ready game fixes : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

 

Here are the games mentioned by Bowl and prtscn from earlier in this thread:

Desert Storm 2

An ESPN 2k5 or 2k6 Games (I have about five of these 2K5 HDD ready, I know 2 of them at least load, and can test the others tomorrow).

Fable... without dlc

Harry Potter: Prisoner of Azkahban

Jurassic Park

Monster Garage

Toca3 (this one must be a full dd xiso)
Tony Hawk: American Wasteland
Tony Hawk: Project 8
The following games are present on the Origins image and are known to not work for one reason or another, or just have issues:

- Medal of Honor: Frontline - There are many videos that have been removed, I'm assuming due to filenames.
- Fight Night: Round 2 - There's no music in the menu there. 
- Arctic Thunder - Freezes while loading a race
- Midtown Madness is freezing halfway the game if you play washington undercover the mission Diva Manners
- Nightcaster II: Equinox has 5 missing .bik files causing the game to crash
- TOCA 3 has a dirty disc error when playing the world tour (Why ISO is needed)
- Jurassic Park Operation Genesis also has dirty disc error (Why ISO is needed)
- 1 of the unreal tournament games is a prototype game.
- FIFA 07 is freezing
- Return to Castle: Wolfenstein has a dirty disc error while loading a mission

 

@Bowlsnapper did once say to me he would test all games on the origins image to see if they work or not. As I like to document things for the community I did make a google sheet for him so he could document it. I added the games to that sheet that I remembered and was sure of myself. The sheet can be found here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1qwEGVrEeFoB9ILsYHxY6KRdORlz8dUq4MXToV97wY-I/edit#gid=0

Other games that I think needed iso are: 

• Harry Potter And The Prisoner Of Azkaban
• Monster Garage
• Tony Hawk's American Wasteland
• Tony Hawk's Project 8
• Frankie Dettori Racing

All because of long filenames, but I didn't add them because I wasn't totally sure about them (maybe they where patched in origins idk), It is a long time ago I was playing with the origins build till I switched over to a full extract-xiso set.

I deleted the origins build so dont have a version anymore to verify

Now Im using a full repackinator xiso set paired with cci (sport games are cci in my build to save up space for emulators)

[Bowlsnapper]

13 minutes ago, Dempsey_86 said:

@Bowlsnapper did once say to me he would test all games on the origins image to see if they work or not. As I like to document things for the community I did make a google sheet for him so he could document it. I added the games to that sheet that I remembered and was sure of myself. The sheet can be found here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1qwEGVrEeFoB9ILsYHxY6KRdORlz8dUq4MXToV97wY-I/edit#gid=0

Other games that I think needed iso are: 

• Harry Potter And The Prisoner Of Azkaban
• Monster Garage
• Tony Hawk's American Wasteland
• Tony Hawk's Project 8
• Frankie Dettori Racing

All because of long filenames, but I didn't add them because I wasn't totally sure about them (maybe they where patched in origins idk), It is a long time ago I was playing with the origins build till I switched over to a full extract-xiso set.

I deleted the origins build so dont have a version anymore to verify

Now Im using a full repackinator xiso set paired with cci (sport games are cci in my build to save up space for emulators)

@arfows Yes, I remember saying that. It is a daunting task which will take time, however, I can load up a certain amount of games every day, really. Is this strictly for the Origins setup? Because I KNOW it doesn't have every game in it... Also, how far into the game are we trying to get? Just loading, or running it? Because beating the game obviously isn't practical. Are the errors just due to things that ACL patching cannot remedy, or other things? Do people know what they are?

[Dempsey_86]

On 4/5/2024 at 11:35 AM, arfows said:

- Medal of Honor: Frontline - There are many videos that have been removed, I'm assuming due to filenames.

No, they did it to save space

On 4/5/2024 at 11:35 AM, arfows said:

Arctic Thunder - Freezes while loading a race

If I remember right, this one works as hdd ready, but all hdd ready builds you can find online are from the same source, so they are all broken.

 

Thats the problem with this hdd ready files you find online, they are all from that same release back in the day. Some of these games had things ripped out to save space, others had errors, others where a beta instead of the retail version (unreal tournament).