128mb upgrade worklog — Success!

[Bowlsnapper]

One down! 3 to go...

 

[fox]

that xblast ram test was a lifesaver when I was doing my xbox, good stuff there

[Bowlsnapper]

1 hour ago, fox said:

that xblast ram test was a lifesaver when I was doing my xbox, good stuff there

I failed! Awesome!

Lol, I killed my video output going for the one near the CPU heatsink. So much for that board! Guess I'll try my other one. That one's gone, I have to wait until I get another board.

I think I made the mistake of touching things with my soldering iron that I shouldn't have been touching on accident. Oh well, guess I learned a lesson. But I'm getting this done...

[bolofski]

fair play for giving it a go, its something ive wanted to try for a long while but i need a better soldering iron for a start!

[Bowlsnapper]

49 minutes ago, bolofski said:

fair play for giving it a go, its something ive wanted to try for a long while but i need a better soldering iron for a start!

Now my fucking power supply is dead... This is crazy dude. How do people even get this done? I lost a board, and now a power supply... I'm pretty discouraged at the time... Guess I'll buy another set...

Nevermind. Standby power is fine. Looks like I just killed this motherboard too... I don't get it. How am I killing my motherboard this easily. It's not like I'm using tons of heat or anything. And I'm far enough away that nothing important is being affected by heat. Im at a loss really. I'm tired of trying this and killing.motherboards...

Worklog on hold now. Lmao

Can the chips that are pulled off the motherboard work, or are they killed with heat when doing so? I use just enough to pull them off. Should I be buying the memory chips brand new?

[Dempsey_86]

Sure the caps are fine on these boards? It is very unlikely you killing 2 motherbords and 1 psu with doing ram upgrades. 

Also check solder splashes around the motherboard. 

I once had an ram chip soldered in the wrong way. And this board is maybe killed. It has artifacts in the video output. It can be coincidence (maybe the artifacts where there from the beginning, I didnt test the motherboard a lot before upgrade)But I think the artifacts are from the wrong placing of the chips. I replaced the video encoder, all big caps, caps near video port, nothing helps. Maybe its the gpu thats killed.

 What Im trying to say is make sure the ram chips are soldered the correct way. 
 

edit and dont use hot air but an soldering iron to put them on. 

Edited August 27, 2023 by Dempsey_86

[Bowlsnapper]

2 minutes ago, Dempsey_86 said:

Sure the caps are fine on these boards? It is very unlikely you killing 2 motherbords and 1 psu with doing ram upgrades. 

Also check solder splashes around the motherboard. 

I once had an ram chip soldered in the wrong way. And this board is maybe killed. It has artifacts in the video output. It can be coincidence (maybe the artifacts where there from the beginning, I didnt test the motherboard a lot before upgrade)But I think the artifacts are from the wrong placing of the chips. I replaced the video encoder, all big caps, caps near video port, nothing helps. Maybe its the gpu thats killed.

 What Im trying to say is make sure the ram chips are soldered the correct way. 
 

edit and dont use hot air but an soldering iron to put them on. 

They were soldered on the correct way and I don't put them on with hot air I've only removed some with hot air because I don't want to pay for more.

[Fringle]

Damn, this makes me nervous to try. haha  I ordered new Ram though since I broke one of the legs off a chip when removing them.  Going to first try it on the board I removed them from and if I can make it boot again I'll give it a go on another one.

[lopenator]

4 hours ago, Bowlsnapper said:

Now my fucking power supply is dead... This is crazy dude. How do people even get this done? I lost a board, and now a power supply... I'm pretty discouraged at the time... Guess I'll buy another set...

Nevermind. Standby power is fine. Looks like I just killed this motherboard too... I don't get it. How am I killing my motherboard this easily. It's not like I'm using tons of heat or anything. And I'm far enough away that nothing important is being affected by heat. Im at a loss really. I'm tired of trying this and killing.motherboards...

Worklog on hold now. Lmao

Can the chips that are pulled off the motherboard work, or are they killed with heat when doing so? I use just enough to pull them off. Should I be buying the memory chips brand new?

the chips are probably still good. it's difficult to ruin the ram with hot air unless you really toasted it. definitely not impossible though. pull them off and use them on another board. what are you going to do with the broken board? I'll buy your GPU heatsink clamp from it. lol

Edited August 27, 2023 by lopenator

[Marty]

17 minutes ago, lopenator said:

 I'll buy your GPU heatsink clamp from it. lol

GPU heatsinks aren't hard to find replacements for. A lot of older motherboard chipset heatsinks will fit.

[fox]

6 hours ago, Bowlsnapper said:

I failed! Awesome!

In my noob days I killed a board from listening to some idiot recommending flooding the leads with solder and wicking off the excess amount afterward. Real smart. That just raises the chance of a bridge happening behind the ram legs, where it's impossible to inspect things. I heard from people later that even a little tiny solder short between certain leads will kill a board, and I have no doubt it happened. So I practiced on a ton on scrap boards in preparation for my second ram attempt, lemme tell you. Learned a bunch of tricks. In the next go 'round there was some low level shorting that made no sense with new ram failing to connect. It just turned out to be my cheap-o flux is a little conductive, lol. I scrubbed and dried that board at least a dozen times. One by one the chips passed the ram test, with xblast telling me which chips were finally clean and which still needed work. Without that ram tester I might've scrapped that board. I don't know Benny Diamond but I'll always be grateful to him for xblast, it even fixed the eeprom on another occasion.

Quote

Can the chips that are pulled off the motherboard work

The ones on my dead board were salvaged with a heat gun and they still worked. If that didn't kill them maybe an iron won't.

[lopenator]

3 minutes ago, fox said:

In my noob days I killed a board from listening to some idiot recommending flooding the leads with solder and wicking off the excess amount afterward. Real smart. That just raises the chance of a bridge happening behind the ram legs, where it's impossible to inspect things. I heard from people later that even a little tiny solder short between certain leads will kill a board, and I have no doubt it happened. So I practiced on a ton on scrap boards in preparation for my second ram attempt, lemme tell you. Learned a bunch of tricks. In the next go 'round there was some low level shorting that made no sense with new ram failing to connect. It just turned out to be my cheap-o flux is a little conductive, lol. I scrubbed and dried that board at least a dozen times. One by one the chips passed the ram test, with xblast telling me which chips were finally clean and which still needed work. Without that ram tester I might've scrapped that board. I don't know Benny Diamond but I'll always be grateful to him for xblast, it even fixed the eeprom on another occasion.

The ones on my dead board were salvaged with a heat gun and they still worked. If that didn't kill them maybe an iron won't.

this is a technique I frequently use when soldering to unleaded motherboards. Washing away the old unleaded solder and replacing it with leaded works very well. This is the only time I would recommend this though.

[Bowlsnapper]

3 hours ago, lopenator said:

this is a technique I frequently use when soldering to unleaded motherboards. Washing away the old unleaded solder and replacing it with leaded works very well. This is the only time I would recommend this though.

I have another Xbox on the way with a dead DVD drive. I will try it again. Maybe I'll replace the solder too, like you said. I have plenty of wick and good amtech flux.

Man I got the one chip to work and I was excited. And now it's toast.

[lopenator]

1 hour ago, Bowlsnapper said:

I have another Xbox on the way with a dead DVD drive. I will try it again. Maybe I'll replace the solder too, like you said. I have plenty of wick and good amtech flux.

Man I got the one chip to work and I was excited. And now it's toast.

xbox uses leaded solder so it isn't necessary for it. it should be done for motherboards with unleaded because mixing leaded and unleaded can lead to issues down the road.

or you can just use unleaded solder.

Edited August 27, 2023 by lopenator

[Marty]

Did another 128MB RAM upgrade on a Ver 1.0 this afternoon.

If vacant RAM pads are already tinned, you do NOT need to add solder....aside from keeping your tip tinned.

If the soldering iron seems to be "gripping" the part your soldering, or it's not gliding across the pins, you need to use more flux.

 

[Marty]

1 hour ago, lopenator said:

 

or you can just use unleaded solder.

63/37 is perfectly fine for most work, but personally I go with 60/40 for most jobs.

[lopenator]

42 minutes ago, Marty said:

63/37 is perfectly fine for most work, but personally I go with 60/40 for most jobs.

Yes thats great, but when working with mobos with unleaded solder, it is best practice to not mix leaded with unleaded. It can lead to cracked joints down the road.

I recommend either solder washing, or removing the leaded solder really well in order to mix it properly. Or just use unleaded. The OG xbox doesnt have unleaded solder so it doesn't apply here.

Edited August 27, 2023 by lopenator

[Bowlsnapper]

12 minutes ago, lopenator said:

Yes thats great, but when working with mobos with unleaded solder, it is best practice to not mix leaded with unleaded. It can lead to cracked joints down the road.

I recommend either solder washing, or flooding the mobo with leaded solder really really well in order to mix it properly. Or just use unleaded. The OG xbox doesnt have unleaded solder so it doesn't apply here.

Would you then recommend solder wicking any solder that is on the pads already and then applying a very liberal amount of leaded solder to the pads instead? In my experience, some memory pads come pre-tinned with plenty of solder to the point where I have to remove it in order to align the ram chips. Otherwise they get stuck between the pads because they're raised. Sometimes though there is barely any solder or none whatsoever on the pads. It's odd.

I'm very wary of rolling the soldering iron back and forth along the pins. I tend to just pick one pin at a time and drag it down the leg and then the pad. I try to do them very carefully one at a time. Plenty of flux is always a tool but I am scared of bridging behind the legs or between them.

I have to remove a chip with hot air because that seems to be the only way to do it, should I tap on tape the rest of the components off or can they stand the heat?

What is the best way to clean the ram chip of any solder in order to prevent shorting? What should I do before I switch the console back on after I finish a chip? I have a feeling I'm missing a detail and I'm sending current where it shouldn't be going and frying my motherboards.

[lopenator]

36 minutes ago, Bowlsnapper said:

Would you then recommend solder wicking any solder that is on the pads already and then applying a very liberal amount of leaded solder to the pads instead? In my experience, some memory pads come pre-tinned with plenty of solder to the point where I have to remove it in order to align the ram chips. Otherwise they get stuck between the pads because they're raised. Sometimes though there is barely any solder or none whatsoever on the pads. It's odd.

I'm very wary of rolling the soldering iron back and forth along the pins. I tend to just pick one pin at a time and drag it down the leg and then the pad. I try to do them very carefully one at a time. Plenty of flux is always a tool but I am scared of bridging behind the legs or between them.

I have to remove a chip with hot air because that seems to be the only way to do it, should I tap on tape the rest of the components off or can they stand the heat?

What is the best way to clean the ram chip of any solder in order to prevent shorting? What should I do before I switch the console back on after I finish a chip? I have a feeling I'm missing a detail and I'm sending current where it shouldn't be going and frying my motherboards.

In my experience SMD soldering is easier when the pads have no existing solder on them although it can be done either way. If the chip isnt sitting flat and flush it could be difficult to line everything up correctly. I think you will have the highest success rate wicking all the solder from the pads just be careful not to burn the pads and rip one off. After the pads are cleared, clean it with some IPA 99% and lay the chip on the pads. Apply a healthy amount of flux, you can literally NEVER have too much flux. Tag one pin in the left side of the chip and recheck alignment. If it is good, tag one more pin on the right side. Now the chip will not move on you. You can now start working all the pins one at a time. When its done take a needle or something similar (I use a metal dental pick) and just very gently touch the pins to make sure they dont move just be careful, go gently you dont want to bend a pin too hard. They move very eaisly. If they move they are not connected well enough or at all. Clean with IPA and then check with a multimeter for shorts. (Take note some of the pins on the RAM chip will have continuity because they are connected and thats normal. You can check them with reissitance to confirm if its a short or not. A short will be 0 ohms). If there are any bridges, apply flux (dont be skimpy here) and clean your iron so theres no solder on it and just touch the pins again running down them towards you. It should clear. Alternatively, you can drag solder. That would be faster. Thats how I install these chips. The pitch on the legs are far enough apart but wouldn't recommend that method unless you are competent in it.

If youre going to use a rework station I would just hit it with the air. I wouldnt tape off anything else around it because the tape can put pressure on small comonenets and when the solder melts it can move the component without you even realizing it. Componenets around it shouldnt move when molten unless you touch them. I like to take a pipcture of the area before hot air and compare it to after to make sure all components are still there. Put the rework station on 6.5 airflow and run it at 350c. I personally would only use this to remove chips but you can install them doing it also. I also don't like heating the chips so much but they shoud be fine as long as youre not burning them. Make sure you move the air around the legs constantly.

When youre checking the ram you do not need the HDD plugged in or the DVD drive. Just go to xblastOS and run the test.

You know whats fucked up when I did the RAM upgrade on my 1.6? I couldnt use xblastOS to check the ram because that specific xbox has stellar HD in it and I couldnt use HDMI without stellar attached to it. I YOLOD every chip.

Good luck brother, If you need anything lemme know. I love helping when Im capable of doing so.

Edited August 27, 2023 by lopenator

[Marty]

48 minutes ago, Bowlsnapper said:

Would you then recommend solder wicking any solder that is on the pads already

If the XBOX pads are already tinned, consider yourself lucky and just use what's there. You don't need more solder, other than keeping the tip tinned.

Any more solder and you're going to be fighting bridging.

[Bowlsnapper]

2 minutes ago, Marty said:

If the XBOX pads are already tinned, consider yourself lucky and just use what's there. You don't need more solder, other than keeping the tip tinned.

Any more solder and you're going to be fighting bridging.

The last one had so much solder on the pads I had to actually remove most of it with my soldering iron and then flatten them out.

[Bowlsnapper]

1 hour ago, lopenator said:

In my experience SMD soldering is easier when the pads have no existing solder on them although it can be done either way. If the chip isnt sitting flat and flush it could be difficult to line everything up correctly. I think you will have the highest success rate wicking all the solder from the pads just be careful not to burn the pads and rip one off. After the pads are cleared, clean it with some IPA 99% and lay the chip on the pads. Apply a healthy amount of flux, you can literally NEVER have too much flux. Tag one pin in the left side of the chip and recheck alignment. If it is good, tag one more pin on the right side. Now the chip will not move on you. You can now start working all the pins one at a time. When its done take a needle or something similar (I use a metal dental pick) and just very gently touch the pins to make sure they dont move just be careful, go gently you dont want to bend a pin too hard. They move very eaisly. If they move they are not connected well enough or at all. Clean with IPA and then check with a multimeter for shorts. (Take note some of the pins on the RAM chip will have continuity because they are connected and thats normal. You can check them with reissitance to confirm if its a short or not. A short will be 0 ohms). If there are any bridges, apply flux (dont be skimpy here) and clean your iron so theres no solder on it and just touch the pins again running down them towards you. It should clear. Alternatively, you can drag solder. That would be faster. Thats how I install these chips. The pitch on the legs are far enough apart but wouldn't recommend that method unless you are competent in it.

If youre going to use a rework station I would just hit it with the air. I wouldnt tape off anything else around it because the tape can put pressure on small comonenets and when the solder melts it can move the component without you even realizing it. Componenets around it shouldnt move when molten unless you touch them. I like to take a pipcture of the area before hot air and compare it to after to make sure all components are still there. Put the rework station on 6.5 airflow and run it at 350c. I personally would only use this to remove chips but you can install them doing it also. I also don't like heating the chips so much but they shoud be fine as long as youre not burning them. Make sure you move the air around the legs constantly.

When youre checking the ram you do not need the HDD plugged in or the DVD drive. Just go to xblastOS and run the test.

You know whats fucked up when I did the RAM upgrade on my 1.6? I couldnt use xblastOS to check the ram because that specific xbox has stellar HD in it and I couldnt use HDMI without stellar attached to it. I YOLOD every chip.

Good luck brother, If you need anything lemme know. I love helping when Im capable of doing so.

Yeah I'm hip on anchoring a couple pins and tacking them to make sure the chip doesn't move around. Also know how to check for loose pins with my tweezers. But that was a lot of good information and I appreciate you trying to help. I have a console on the way with a problematic DVD ROM drive. So I will try my luck with that console. It has a case and a PSU to come with it, so I could use another test bench.

I am aware that peripherals aren't necessary to boot XBlast. Thank god. Just boot it and test. I WILL get this done. Hopefully I can begin to sell them with 128 and include half life 1 and any chihiro software that will be enabled to work with it.

Then when that is tackled I'm moving on to this bad boy:

 

[fox]

16 hours ago, Bowlsnapper said:

I think I made the mistake of touching things with my soldering iron that I shouldn't have been touching on accident.

I forgot to address this earlier, just cover everything else on the board except your empty ram spots with electrical tape. It takes all the risk out of solder splatter and almost all the risk out of a wandering iron. That's what I do with cluttered boards. Tape the area around the spot I'm working on.

Edited August 28, 2023 by fox

[Marty]

26 minutes ago, fox said:

I forgot to address this earlier, just cover everything else on the board except your empty ram spots with electrical tape.

Don't use electrical tape. The heat will cause it to shrink and it will pull away any components it's stuck to.

You're better off using kapton tape....but even there honestly you don't need it, unless you're blocking off caps or plastic parts.

Edited August 28, 2023 by Marty

[Bowlsnapper]

5 minutes ago, Marty said:

Don't use electrical tape. The heat will cause it to shrink and it will pull away any components it's stuck to.

You're better off using kapton tape....but even there honestly you don't need it, unless you're blocking off caps or plastic parts.

That's what I was going to do, yes. Electrical tape melts from heat. Kapton would be my personal go to.