alfredo2 Posted October 9, 2021 Report Share Posted October 9, 2021 (edited) I have noticed that there are still a few sealed consoles on ebay and they can get quite expensive. With all these consoles being sealed and in storage for over 15 years is it likely that the caps (apart from the usual problem caps) will need to be reformed or replaced before powered? Edited October 9, 2021 by alfredo2 Missed info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaosEngineer Posted October 9, 2021 Report Share Posted October 9, 2021 Many manufacturer's specificatons state 2-3 years of shelf life. (Keeps them from being sued.) In practice, I would say it all depends upon how these consoles were stored for the last 20 years. For the Xbox's switching power supply, I'd say it would be best to measure, reform and/or replace the electrolytic caps; otherwise, when powered on some of them may go boom. Best to do so for the motherboard's electrolytics too. At least measure them to make sure they are still in spec before powering the console. In spec, reform while out of circuit or if out of spec, replace. To me, a brand new, never opened Xbox is best left that way. A collector's item never to be opened to play a game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredo2 Posted October 10, 2021 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2021 Thanks again Kaos, what is the best way to reliably test a cap? Also does the test tell you if the cap needs to be reformed? I have seen a few sealed consoles powered on in the last three years with no problems but I would like to check mine before I do anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaosEngineer Posted October 10, 2021 Report Share Posted October 10, 2021 8 hours ago, alfredo2 said: Thanks again Kaos, what is the best way to reliably test a cap? Also does the test tell you if the cap needs to be reformed? I have seen a few sealed consoles powered on in the last three years with no problems but I would like to check mine before I do anything. You will need an LRC meter. It is a type of electronic test equipment used to measure the inductance (L), capacitance (C), and resistance (R) of an electronic component. For capacitors, it gives you the Equivalent Series Resistance (ESR) value - some of the original capacitors on the Xbox are to be low or ultra-low ESR devices. [ This B&K LCR Meter Guide provides a thorough write-up about their operation and usage. ] To measure a capacitor the device has to be removed from the circuit. At least one lead disconnected from the rest of the circuit it connects to but easier to completely remove it from the circuit. For the low voltage capacitors on the Xbox, there may be no problem. The one's I think that may have a problem are the high voltage rated electrolytic caps on the Xbox's power supply. Electrolyte can dry out and/or leak from capacitors. Thus, they no longer function as a capacitor. Reforming Electrolytic Capacitors One of many web pages I found about capacitor reforming: https://www.6v6.co.uk/vcomp/tech_tips/reform_caps.htm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lina_Inverse_ Posted October 11, 2021 Report Share Posted October 11, 2021 (edited) The Nichicon HM series near the heatsink on some revisions (I believe only 1.4 but that's all I've seen) fail as they can bulge and lose capacitance without power applied. I've had two consoles bulge, when I put them away, the capacitors were fine. It's only because they're a bad batch. On an LCR meter I believe all 3300uF caps read around 10-20uF which is very bad but ESR was within normal range. It prevented powering of the consoles whereas both were working fine before. It could be the warm environment I stored them in? Aside from that, I don't think there's much of an issue. I've got electrolytics that are much older (1970s) in equipment such as my main amplifier still working well within spec, or close enough that it's not an issue. Edited October 11, 2021 by Lina_Inverse_ 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS_Dave Posted October 12, 2021 Report Share Posted October 12, 2021 On 10/10/2021 at 4:55 AM, alfredo2 said: I have noticed that there are still a few sealed consoles on ebay and they can get quite expensive. With all these consoles being sealed and in storage for over 15 years is it likely that the caps (apart from the usual problem caps) will need to be reformed or replaced before powered? In my view I think you are worrying to much. If I think there is going to be a issue because someone else has attempted to repair an item in for repair I would then inspect the insides then use a current limited supply to power up the item. In the case of a mains unit I have a 100watt and 200watt incandescent light globes in series with the active wire and if the lamp is fully illuminated there is a problem. If the Xbox is in the carton that's fully sealed I would leave it like that and find a one that's not so rare. If you mean it's just never been opened (warranty seals intact) there is a good chance that's it's been used at some stage so just plug it in and see what happens. Cheers SS Dave Soft modding is like masturbating, It gets the job done but it's nothing like the real thing. . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredo2 Posted October 13, 2021 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2021 (edited) Thanks once again SS Dave. Edited October 13, 2021 by alfredo2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredo2 Posted October 13, 2021 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2021 (edited) On 10/11/2021 at 8:51 PM, Lina_Inverse_ said: The Nichicon HM series near the heatsink on some revisions (I believe only 1.4 but that's all I've seen) fail as they can bulge and lose capacitance without power applied. I've had two consoles bulge, when I put them away, the capacitors were fine. It's only because they're a bad batch. On an LCR meter I believe all 3300uF caps read around 10-20uF which is very bad but ESR was within normal range. It prevented powering of the consoles whereas both were working fine before. It could be the warm environment I stored them in? Aside from that, I don't think there's much of an issue. I've got electrolytics that are much older (1970s) in equipment such as my main amplifier still working well within spec, or close enough that it's not an issue. Yeah Nichicon had a few bad batches with the HM and HN series back in the day, might explain why those particular caps tend to leak. I have not seen the ones made by Rubycon leak as of yet. 18 hours ago, SS_Dave said: In my view I think you are worrying to much. If I think there is going to be a issue because someone else has attempted to repair an item in for repair I would then inspect the insides then use a current limited supply to power up the item. In the case of a mains unit I have a 100watt and 200watt incandescent light globes in series with the active wire and if the lamp is fully illuminated there is a problem. If the Xbox is in the carton that's fully sealed I would leave it like that and find a one that's not so rare. If you mean it's just never been opened (warranty seals intact) there is a good chance that's it's been used at some stage so just plug it in and see what happens. Cheers SS Dave Soft modding is like masturbating, It gets the job done but it's nothing like the real thing. . Thanks once again SS Dave. I'm just going to boot it up and see what happens. I will replace the caps if I have any issues. Just a quick final question, we have spoken in the past about bad capacitors, in regards to old unused capacitors on the xbox mobo and psu, if they have gone bad from not being used and don't physically explode should I expect any damage to the mobo, psu or any other parts of the console if it is used? Sorry to keep going on about it, I tend to get concerned about things I don't understand. Thanks again anyway, you have been a big help. Edited October 13, 2021 by alfredo2 spelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS_Dave Posted October 14, 2021 Report Share Posted October 14, 2021 18 hours ago, alfredo2 said: Just a quick final question, we have spoken in the past about bad capacitors, in regards to old unused capacitors on the xbox mobo and psu, if they have gone bad from not being used and don't physically explode should I expect any damage to the mobo, psu or any other parts of the console if it is used? As a rule the Xbox will not boot with failed cap's in the PSU and if there is failed or failing caps on the main board the Xbox may boot but could have issues with video and or it may randomly shut down. The chance for a capacitor exploding in a Xbox is extremely low although it can make a mess if they do explode but in 99% of cases I have seen items with exploded caps in items there was no damage to the boards and the most common cause of the caps exploding was from over voltage (like using a 6.3 volt cap on 12volt or more) and if that's the case then you have bigger problems. 18 hours ago, alfredo2 said: I will replace the caps if I have any issues. The most common caps that need replacing are the three or five next to the heatsink followed by the one or 2 next to the 12 or 20 pin power connector. Cheers SS Dave Soft modding is like masturbating, It gets the job done but it's nothing like the real thing. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredo2 Posted October 17, 2021 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2021 Thanks once again "SS Dave". I am going to replace those five trouble caps near the cpu and the other two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phrunt Posted November 28, 2021 Report Share Posted November 28, 2021 (edited) I've managed to get some capacitors I think will be suitable for my Xbox, is anyone able to confirm they are the right sort Here are my old bad ones and the new ones The shop they came from said they were 1500uF 6.3V NICHICON HE Series 10x20mm Extremely Low Impedance Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitors Any advice appreciated before I go attempting to replace capacitors for the first time I assume the original Xbox ones have that line on the top of one side to show the negative side? and I put the new capacitor oriented with the side with the line through the same hole? And I guess the circled bit on this new capacitor is the line? Edited November 28, 2021 by phrunt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS_Dave Posted November 28, 2021 Report Share Posted November 28, 2021 The white stripe with the - is the negative lead and you will see one of the capacitor leads is longer than the other that the positive lead. 37 minutes ago, phrunt said: The red circle you have marked is also the negative side. When you are removing the old caps it helps to apply a small amount of fresh leaded solder and extra flux paste to the pins/leads 1st as it help the solder flow better. Cheers SS Dave Soft modding is like masturbating, It gets the job done but it's nothing like the real thing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phrunt Posted November 28, 2021 Report Share Posted November 28, 2021 3 minutes ago, SS_Dave said: The white stripe with the - is the negative lead and you will see one of the capacitor leads is longer than the other that the positive lead. The red circle you have marked is also the negative side. Thanks, so I had it wrong, lucky I didn't proceed without checking OK so you've marked the negative side in black and I align that with the negative side which is the side with the little line on the silver standard caps. I bought some flux so I'll use your trick there. Thanks for the help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaosEngineer Posted November 28, 2021 Report Share Posted November 28, 2021 1 hour ago, phrunt said: Thanks, so I had it wrong, lucky I didn't proceed without checking OK so you've marked the negative side in black and I align that with the negative side which is the side with the little line on the silver standard caps. I bought some flux so I'll use your trick there. Thanks for the help. The silkscreen labeling on the motherboard should have a + sign next to the positive lead. Opposite the capacitor's negative lead which is indicated by the thick white stripe with - symbols in it. And, the negative side of the silkscreen has a thick white bar across it as shown below. Here's the link to Nichicon's datasheets for the HD and HE series of capacitors: e-hd.pdf (nichicon.co.jp) [discontinued many years ago] e-he.pdf (nichicon.co.jp) The HD series had a lower ESR (0.023 Ohms) and max ripple current rating of 1840 milliAmps (mA). The HE series has a higher ESR (0.048 Ohms) and a lower max ripple current rating of 1400 mA. They should work. How much the higher ESR and lower max ripple current affects the longevity of their operation is unknown. The original HD series capacitors used may have been selected with specification ratings much better than actually required. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phrunt Posted November 28, 2021 Report Share Posted November 28, 2021 Thanks for the information. Hopefully they work OK on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS_Dave Posted November 28, 2021 Report Share Posted November 28, 2021 21 minutes ago, phrunt said: Thanks for the information. Hopefully they work OK on it. They will work fine. Cheers SS Dave Soft modding is like masturbating, It gets the job done but it's nothing like the real thing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phrunt Posted December 1, 2021 Report Share Posted December 1, 2021 (edited) Well, as always you guys were awesome, it all went to plan. I changed the bad caps with success, no issues at all really as it was easier than I thought it'd be. The only thing that went wrong is I'd knocked off a wire from my mod chip in the process, luckily I took some photos during the process and I was able to put the wire back where it fell off. The Xbox is all up and running now with it's new caps. The other foolish heart stopping thing I did was had the TV on the wrong input when I turned the Xbox on so I had no signal, it gave me a heart attack I noticed when the Xbox booted up and the light changed to Red that I have it set to so I knew the Xbox had booted then I quickly worked out my mistake. This photo was once I'd take the board out before I stated the job, the photo that saved me with the mod chip wire falling off. I know it's controversial about changing the thermal paste but I did it to both the GPU and CPU while I was in there, just used the heat gun on my soldering station to put a bit of heat on the heat sinks so they came off very easily and scraped the old thermal paste off with a credit card and some pure alcohol then put Arctic silver on there. It sure didn't hurt, my temps are nice. The caps had quite obvious damage on top. Edited December 1, 2021 by phrunt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredo2 Posted December 2, 2021 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2021 On 12/1/2021 at 11:25 AM, phrunt said: The Xbox is all up and running now with it's new caps. The other foolish heart stopping thing I did was had the TV on the wrong input when I turned the Xbox on so I had no signal, it gave me a heart attack I noticed when the Xbox booted up and the light changed to Red that I have it set to so I knew the Xbox had booted then I quickly worked out my mistake. I did last week when I did my first recap, I must have had three heart attacks before I figured out what was wrong lol. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredo2 Posted December 2, 2021 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2021 On 11/29/2021 at 9:06 AM, SS_Dave said: They will work fine. Cheers SS Dave Soft modding is like masturbating, It gets the job done but it's nothing like the real thing. I am about to do my second recap, my first one went well. I had a friend who has soldered countless caps help me out. I am just curious about what your recommendations are when it comes to soldering? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS_Dave Posted December 3, 2021 Report Share Posted December 3, 2021 17 hours ago, alfredo2 said: I am just curious about what your recommendations are when it comes to soldering? Lots and lots of practice! and not on a working board go and find some old electronics to practice on. I have seen to many posts of damaged Xbox boards due to inexperienced persons tiring to solder. I use a Hakko adjustable soldering station with a 4mm tip set to around 375c (700f) when changing cap's and a 1mm tip for finer work like trace repair. I use a 0.8mm leaded 60/40 solder for most soldering and a 0.5mm for trace repair ( lead free is cr@p in my view ) You need to always have extra flux and I use a flux paste in syringe and its' good to have de-soldering wick/braid on hand ( approx. 1.5mm wide and 3mm wide ) You don't need to spend large amounts on soldering gear just get the best you can afford. I also use a cheap no-name solder iron that uses the Hakko tips When removing the old caps it's best to add fresh solder and flux paste to the joints 1st then you can use the solder wick (place the wick on the solder joint and heat with your iron) to re-move the solder from the lead/hole and the cap should almost fall out, but the main filter caps next to the heat sink are harder to remove and some times add the fresh solder and flux and with one hand holding the iron and the other on the cap heat one pin and rock the cap slightly and repeat for the other pin, by going back and forward doing this the cap will slowly come out then add fresh solder and use the solder wick to clean out the hole. When soldering the new cap in put the tip of the iron so it's resting on the lead and the board then add solder. If you watch some YouTube clips on how to solder that will give you the general idea and over time you will find the iron temperature ( hotter or colder) and the time you hold the iron on the joint that works best for you. Did I say practice? Lastly there is no shame in seeking help to solder on your working Xbox, better to get help than destroy a Xbox!! Cheers SS Dave Soft modding is like masturbating, It gets the job done but it's nothing like the real thing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredo2 Posted December 7, 2021 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2021 On 12/3/2021 at 7:55 PM, SS_Dave said: Lots and lots of practice! and not on a working board go and find some old electronics to practice on. I have seen to many posts of damaged Xbox boards due to inexperienced persons tiring to solder. I use a Hakko adjustable soldering station with a 4mm tip set to around 375c (700f) when changing cap's and a 1mm tip for finer work like trace repair. I use a 0.8mm leaded 60/40 solder for most soldering and a 0.5mm for trace repair ( lead free is cr@p in my view ) You need to always have extra flux and I use a flux paste in syringe and its' good to have de-soldering wick/braid on hand ( approx. 1.5mm wide and 3mm wide ) You don't need to spend large amounts on soldering gear just get the best you can afford. I also use a cheap no-name solder iron that uses the Hakko tips When removing the old caps it's best to add fresh solder and flux paste to the joints 1st then you can use the solder wick (place the wick on the solder joint and heat with your iron) to re-move the solder from the lead/hole and the cap should almost fall out, but the main filter caps next to the heat sink are harder to remove and some times add the fresh solder and flux and with one hand holding the iron and the other on the cap heat one pin and rock the cap slightly and repeat for the other pin, by going back and forward doing this the cap will slowly come out then add fresh solder and use the solder wick to clean out the hole. When soldering the new cap in put the tip of the iron so it's resting on the lead and the board then add solder. If you watch some YouTube clips on how to solder that will give you the general idea and over time you will find the iron temperature ( hotter or colder) and the time you hold the iron on the joint that works best for you. Did I say practice? Lastly there is no shame in seeking help to solder on your working Xbox, better to get help than destroy a Xbox!! Cheers SS Dave Soft modding is like masturbating, It gets the job done but it's nothing like the real thing. Thanks again SS Dave. I have done one console already, actually it was a friend who did it as I am not confident enough with a soldering iron to attempt a recap on any of my boards just yet. My friend has done caps for PC motherboards in the past so I just watched him work. Before we attempt anymore we just wanted to hear from someone who is experienced with soldering with the xbox. So how long would you recommend holding the tip to the board for? We only did 10 seconds first up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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