trencherfield Posted August 14, 2023 Report Share Posted August 14, 2023 (edited) On 8/11/2023 at 10:10 AM, NeMesiS said: I just had a crazy idea... So... "N64Freak" does the Pentium 3 "Desktop" Taulatin CPU (Socket 370) to Pentium 3 Mobile Coppermine CPU (Socket 495) Interposer Board. What if I did a Pentium 3 "Mobile" Taulatin CPU (Socket 479) to Pentium 3 Mobile Coppermine CPU (Socket 495) Interposer Board? What are people's thoughts, opinions and ideas on this? Had a look at the processors you are referring to, the mobile ones, they are actually already bga495 (same as xbox), you just reflow them off their small adaptor board and they fit right on, direct swap. Same as the slot 1 P3 version chip. Only issue with the mobile ones is the 100fsb, so need to adjust that down using the cpu app. Also the max cpu was 1ghz. Might get an overclock on it though by raising the fsb a bit. edit: found those fixed pin PIII-M at 1.2ghz @133fsb, dunno if they went higher than that, can only find the odd one on ebay. As I say, think the 495 bga 1ghz p3 mobile @100 fsb will get near that anyway with no interposer needed. Edited August 14, 2023 by trencherfield Further info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeMesiS Posted August 14, 2023 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2023 1 hour ago, trencherfield said: Had a look at the processors you are referring to, the mobile ones, they are actually already bga495 (same as xbox), you just reflow them off their small adaptor board and they fit right on, direct swap. Same as the slot 1 P3 version chip. Only issue with the mobile ones is the 100fsb, so need to adjust that down using the cpu app. Also the max cpu was 1ghz. Might get an overclock on it though by raising the fsb a bit. You're looking at Pentium III Mobile Coppermine CPU's with Socket 495 Pentium Mobile Tualatin CPU's have Socket 479... Intel Mobile Pentium III-M SL6AK 1.2GHz 512 MHz PBGA479 Processor | eBay Comparing Desktop and Mobile Taulatin CPU's... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trencherfield Posted August 14, 2023 Report Share Posted August 14, 2023 1 hour ago, NeMesiS said: You're looking at Pentium III Mobile Coppermine CPU's with Socket 495 Pentium Mobile Tualatin CPU's have Socket 479... Intel Mobile Pentium III-M SL6AK 1.2GHz 512 MHz PBGA479 Processor | eBay Comparing Desktop and Mobile Taulatin CPU's... Yeah, I said in the edit. All I could find was, like you, that 1.2ghz cpu. What I’m saying is its prolly not worth your time doing the interposer for 479 mobile cpu’s. Like I said the 1ghz coppermine drops right on and will overclock. If you wanna do it then yeah sure, but seems like a lot of unnecessary work for ya is all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowlsnapper Posted August 14, 2023 Report Share Posted August 14, 2023 3 hours ago, trencherfield said: Had a look at the processors you are referring to, the mobile ones, they are actually already bga495 (same as xbox), you just reflow them off their small adaptor board and they fit right on, direct swap. Same as the slot 1 P3 version chip. Only issue with the mobile ones is the 100fsb, so need to adjust that down using the cpu app. Also the max cpu was 1ghz. Might get an overclock on it though by raising the fsb a bit. edit: found those fixed pin PIII-M at 1.2ghz @133fsb, dunno if they went higher than that, can only find the odd one on ebay. As I say, think the 495 bga 1ghz p3 mobile @100 fsb will get near that anyway with no interposer needed. I was gonna say, I thought there was a 1.2Ghz that was compatible... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowlsnapper Posted August 14, 2023 Report Share Posted August 14, 2023 On 8/11/2023 at 11:16 PM, NeMesiS said: Very interesting read... You mean being able to re-ball both the CPU and interposer board? Seem's he mounted both CPU and interposer board at the same time. I've been thinking of an alternative install method for something like this. Perhaps mounting the CPU to the interposer board using "lead-free" solder balls (higher temp) Then mounting the interposer board to the motherboard using "leaded" solder balls (lower temp) The idea being that when heating up the lower temp solder the higher temp solder will be unaffected. I could have explained that better but I got a headache... What is the advantage of doing this over using the traditional CPUs meant to be used with the interposer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trencherfield Posted August 14, 2023 Report Share Posted August 14, 2023 3 minutes ago, Bowlsnapper said: I was gonna say, I thought there was a 1.2Ghz that was compatible... Only seen the 1.0’s tops in the bga version myself. Is there a spec list of the coppermine p3 bga somewhere? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trencherfield Posted August 14, 2023 Report Share Posted August 14, 2023 2 minutes ago, Bowlsnapper said: What is the advantage of doing this over using the traditional CPUs meant to be used with the interposer? None really, since those 479’s are also pinned, so a double bga op same as traditional and they only go to 1.33ghz at 133fsb. Plus they are rare, I could only find a single 1.2ghz 479 for sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trencherfield Posted August 14, 2023 Report Share Posted August 14, 2023 I’ve bought a couple of 850mhz 100fsb coppers dirt cheap to fling on as tests to see what they will go up to overclocked. Just for a laugh... if it will work. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeMesiS Posted August 14, 2023 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2023 14 minutes ago, trencherfield said: Only seen the 1.0’s tops in the bga version myself. Is there a spec list of the coppermine p3 bga somewhere? List of Intel Pentium III processors - Wikipedia 13 minutes ago, trencherfield said: None really, since those 479’s are also pinned, so a double bga op same as traditional and they only go to 1.33ghz at 133fsb. Plus they are rare, I could only find a single 1.2ghz 479 for sale. Maybe Mobile CPUs just don't sell, like whose gonna buy and reball them? And if they don't sell, why would you bother listing them. I'm sure there would be a stockpile of them somewhere... Would love to find a Mobile 1.33Ghz for the sake of rarity. 37 minutes ago, trencherfield said: Yeah, I said in the edit. All I could find was, like you, that 1.2ghz cpu. What I’m saying is its prolly not worth your time doing the interposer for 479 mobile cpu’s. Like I said the 1ghz coppermine drops right on and will overclock. If you wanna do it then yeah sure, but seems like a lot of unnecessary work for ya is all. Maybe not but it wouldn't hurt as a side project... This may become more relevant as time goes on... 18 minutes ago, trencherfield said: I’ve bought a couple of 850mhz 100fsb coppers dirt cheap to fling on as tests to see what they will go up to overclocked. Just for a laugh... if it will work. LoL... Be interesting to see... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big F Posted August 14, 2023 Report Share Posted August 14, 2023 6 hours ago, trencherfield said: I’ve bought a couple of 850mhz 100fsb coppers dirt cheap to fling on as tests to see what they will go up to overclocked. Just for a laugh... if it will work. If its anything like the Celleron processors then there are a few that will really overclock. I have some of the 500mhz Cellerons that will happily go to just under a gig. I do recall getting a couple of PIII that were on a forum that stated they were also silly clockable. Would just need to go through my stash of processors. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeMesiS Posted August 14, 2023 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2023 12 hours ago, NeMesiS said: I'm sure there would be a stockpile of them somewhere... Intel P3 Mobile Processor 1.0GHz 256KB 100MHz SL53S New | eBay 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeMesiS Posted August 14, 2023 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2023 Now Live!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowlsnapper Posted August 14, 2023 Report Share Posted August 14, 2023 25 minutes ago, NeMesiS said: Intel P3 Mobile Processor 1.0GHz 256KB 100MHz SL53S New | eBay OOOOOH! WHAT THE FUCK!!!!!!???? Who's picture is that!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowlsnapper Posted August 14, 2023 Report Share Posted August 14, 2023 5 hours ago, big F said: If its anything like the Celleron processors then there are a few that will really overclock. I have some of the 500mhz Cellerons that will happily go to just under a gig. I do recall getting a couple of PIII that were on a forum that stated they were also silly clockable. Would just need to go through my stash of processors. The problem isn't necessarily the actual processors when it comes to overclocking, it's the RAM that gets pushed with the FSB increase. The RAM can only overclock so much at default XBOverclock settings. But apparently you can split the scaling at which RAM overclocking takes place in order to compensate, so theoretically, you should be able to push the CPUs harder than they have traditionally before in the Xbox. Pushing core voltage may also help, but I'm personally unclear on that point. I like the idea about using leaded and unleaded balls to be able to work with two different layers, one at a time. That's a big issue is keeping the bottom layer solid while the top layer is worked with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeMesiS Posted August 15, 2023 Author Report Share Posted August 15, 2023 5 hours ago, Bowlsnapper said: OOOOOH! WHAT THE FUCK!!!!!!???? Who's picture is that!? Dunno found it on eBay.... 5 hours ago, NeMesiS said: Intel P3 Mobile Processor 1.0GHz 256KB 100MHz SL53S New | eBay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowlsnapper Posted August 15, 2023 Report Share Posted August 15, 2023 14 minutes ago, NeMesiS said: Dunno found it on eBay.... That is ONE lucky bastard! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeMesiS Posted August 15, 2023 Author Report Share Posted August 15, 2023 On 7/30/2023 at 8:25 PM, NeMesiS said: v1.0 to 1.5 flex cable is working for the most part... Excluding the artifacts from taking a photo of a display there was some blue hazing. That could just be my soldering as I haven't bothered to go over my work as yet. Might just leave that for the next proto batch of cables unless I find some spare time. I've finished making final changes to the next set of prototype cables and will be ordering them shortly, we should expect to see them in around 2 weeks time... In regard to the v1.0-4 flex cable I must have been getting some sort of external interference. Either from the HDMI cable or from simply having the lid off. There's a few electronics running in that corner of my workbench including a router, so it doesn't surprise me as it sometimes causes interference with my components cable also. When Ace tested it on he's workbench there was no issue, he continued to test the most recent prototype cable. For some reason the pads didn't turn out like last time, I have to figure out why that was. Other than that the v1.0-4 cable is pretty much final... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeMesiS Posted August 15, 2023 Author Report Share Posted August 15, 2023 (edited) On 7/28/2023 at 9:31 PM, COO-589 said: Good stuff, mate! Keen to see if there's any difference between those with the 45deg and curves to see if that plays any part. If they don't work out, maybe there is something in the trace widths and spacings... How does the MM flex cable fit in with those recommendations? I'm not an engineer or anything so don't know how strictly all of that needs to apply or exactly what signals we're dealing with but it might just be a tipping point for it... It's not my money to spend on prototypes but I'm damn curious as to whether or not just changing the trace widths and spacing would have any impact, it would be very interesting to see how significant that is (could do nothing either way if the issue is completely unrelated though of course). I would've had the same approach of using the existing spacings as minimums regardless of those guidelines anyway so I reckon you've made a good call on that so far! I honestly have no idea, unfortunately. I haven't even seen a HDMI mod or its components first-hand so am not really familiar with the flex cable or any of these requirements for the mod... I have a feeling that it's not related to grounding or ground-loops, so I also don't want to lead you down any rabbit holes or anything like that either. Sorry I just dumped all of those thoughts up here in such a rush earlier! I definitely understand not wanting to just jump on that shielding option for cost, and it may only be a band-aid solution (if it would even have any effect on the issue) rather than figuring out the root cause and addressing that... Yeah, I agree and also wouldn't worry too much about adding any extra copper or shielding to prototypes until it's a last resort if you've tried everything else. Loving your work, Nem. Thanks for all that you're investing to make this happen! Also thanks to everyone else that's contributing as well! Cheers! Both the new variants of the v1.6 cable worked, there didn't seem to be any difference between the 45 degree corners or curved corners. Either way the v1.6 cable is now also final... I'll be doing one last batch of cables with minor changes and EMI shielding as the final product to be included with the test batch a handful of people will get to try out once the rest of the HDMI mod is completed. Edited August 15, 2023 by NeMesiS 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeMesiS Posted August 15, 2023 Author Report Share Posted August 15, 2023 On 8/9/2023 at 6:42 PM, trencherfield said: Confirmed, had a look in a drawer, found some, dunno where the others are. Should have 4 spots. Ace had a chance to swap out the ADV from the MM pcb to my own but the problem persisted. To be honest I didn't think I was going to get the HD+ mod on the first go. I'll have to go over my schematic and pcb design, over the next week or so. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowlsnapper Posted August 15, 2023 Report Share Posted August 15, 2023 Your kit scares my, btw... I feel comfortable with Xerc, but I need to order fans for one thing... Also need a HDD... then I need to put all these parts together... Maybe I'm overthinking this and it's easier than I think it is, honestly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeMesiS Posted August 15, 2023 Author Report Share Posted August 15, 2023 1 minute ago, Bowlsnapper said: Your kit scares my, btw... I feel comfortable with Xerc, but I need to order fans for one thing... Also need a HDD... then I need to put all these parts together... Maybe I'm overthinking this and it's easier than I think it is, honestly. I just threw all that extra stuff in as a gift... You don't have to use it all... Overthinking it I think... But it's hard to see what you're seeing since I designed it and know exactly how it's meant to function. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowlsnapper Posted August 15, 2023 Report Share Posted August 15, 2023 27 minutes ago, NeMesiS said: I just threw all that extra stuff in as a gift... You don't have to use it all... Overthinking it I think... But it's hard to see what you're seeing since I designed it and know exactly how it's meant to function. Yeah, I have to use my intuition on this one. I appreciate the extra gifts like the fan headers and LPC rebuilds. Those will come in handy!... the fan caddy does go over the CPU right? or is it on the DVD side? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeMesiS Posted August 15, 2023 Author Report Share Posted August 15, 2023 3 minutes ago, Bowlsnapper said: Yeah, I have to use my intuition on this one. I appreciate the extra gifts like the fan headers and LPC rebuilds. Those will come in handy!... the fan caddy does go over the CPU right? or is it on the DVD side? The HDD gets relocated over to the left where the DVDrom was. Then the fan caddy goes where the CPU and PSU is. Images on the first page of this thread should give you more of an idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowlsnapper Posted August 15, 2023 Report Share Posted August 15, 2023 2 minutes ago, NeMesiS said: The HDD gets relocated over to the left where the DVDrom was. Then the fan caddy goes where the CPU and PSU is. Images on the first page of this thread should give you more of an idea. Okay cool. I WILL figure this out. On a side note, I graduated to Grand Master! That's the final level of this forum's default user tiers! Woo! lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeMesiS Posted August 15, 2023 Author Report Share Posted August 15, 2023 2 hours ago, Bowlsnapper said: Okay cool. I WILL figure this out. On a side note, I graduated to Grand Master! That's the final level of this forum's default user tiers! Woo! lol. Congrats, only took you 1744 posts... LoL... Final design of the flex cables with EMI shielding have been ordered. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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