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"Trace corrosion"-like symptoms, but only when the console is warm?


Megoosa
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I've a Xbox with 1.4 board, softmodded with Rocky5's Xbox Softmodding Tool. It doesn't have the clock capacitor anymore.

The console was working for a while until for some moment the power button doesn't respond to turn on the console and needed to use the eject button for it. And it automatically boot up when you shut it down in software or when the power cord was plugged out and back in. But all this only happen when the console is warm (=when played games for a while). If it's cold, the power button works fine.

I thought it was the trace corrosion mentioned on the forum, but I took the board out to have a look on it and the traces seem to look fine, no corrosion.

After I put it back together the problem still exist and even getting worse: when it's cold everything works fine, but after playing a game for about 30min it will shutdown itself and the power button problem returns. And when restarted with the eject button, sometimes it keeps working for some minutes but most of the time it shuts down after some seconds, just before or right after the dashboard is loaded. But if I let is rest for some hours, everything will get back working for some (short) time.

What can be the cause of these "trace corrosion"-like symptoms, but only when the console is warm/played some games?

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It is powering itself on when plugging in, but only when it's warm and having the symptoms with the power button too.

I didn't test it with the multimeter yet because I thought it won't show up because it would be already cooled down (=problem go away) as I take it apart 😐

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https://web.archive.org/web/20190221151211/http://diy.sickmods.net/Tutorials/Xbox1/Power-Eject_Pinouts/

could be bad resistor, i had one in 1.6. After replacing resistor, xbox wont turn on after plugged in.

And for continuity, test from power button resistors to PIC chip.

Because PIC chip doesn't detect voltage, so it thinks power button is pressed.

Edited by prtscn
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But because the problem only exist when it's warm, does that not mean the continuity or resistor defects are only there when it's warm?

I'll take it apart and check the traces/resistor with my multimeter.

 

Edit: where should the C4 and C5 come from?

Edited by Megoosa
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10 hours ago, Megoosa said:

It is powering itself on when plugging in, but only when it's warm and having the symptoms with the power button too.

I didn't test it with the multimeter yet because I thought it won't show up because it would be already cooled down (=problem go away) as I take it apart 😐

That sounds like a dry solder joints on the resistors at the front of the main board next to the connector from the power/eject PCB.

While the Xbox is open have you meter ready and use a hairdryer to heat it back up and then when it not working correctly you can stat testing or if it was me I would just re-solded that whole location 

 

Cheers

SS Dave


Soft modding is like masturbating, It gets the job done but it's nothing like the real thing.
 

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There was a posting limit...

I've soldered a wire between the C1 points and resoldered the 10K Ohm resistors next to the front panel connectors (resistors are all ok, checked with multimeter). Also checked the continuity between the resistors and the PIC. But after that the board doesn't power on at all anymore 😢 Even after removing the C1 wire the board isn't turning on anymore, it's completely dead now 😢

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21 hours ago, Megoosa said:

There was a posting limit...

I've soldered a wire between the C1 points and resoldered the 10K Ohm resistors next to the front panel connectors (resistors are all ok, checked with multimeter). Also checked the continuity between the resistors and the PIC. But after that the board doesn't power on at all anymore 😢 Even after removing the C1 wire the board isn't turning on anymore, it's completely dead now 😢

It's not dead. Just pic chip doesn't go low anymore. It means, you have to check voltage on the pick chip input pins.

also, mesure voltage before resistorstor to check if you have VCC. And if you want to solder wire, solder for power - pink pink, and for eject is - cyan poin. Otherwise input will be float.

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There was no continuity between the pink points (power button), so I soldered a wire between that resistor and the PIC (seem to be the same as the C1 points on the bottom). But it still wasn't turning on.

But then I took a closer look and saw that I accidentally dropped a mini-mini drop of solder on part C3G9 (SMD capacitor?) next to the resistors, shorting it 🤐 After removing that drop, it's turning back on again 😃

At this moment I don't have time to play an hour of videogames so I can't test if it still works when warm.

But, why is the power button working with the pink (C1) connection broken, when it's cold?

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6 minutes ago, Megoosa said:

At this moment I don't have time to play an hour of videogames so I can't test if it still works when warm.

Heat the Xbox motherboard with a hair drier until it's warm too hot to touch then test again.

I still suspect a dry solder joint based on you description. Test the pin on the IC with the purple mark in the picture I posted it should have around 5 volt and it will be 0 volt when you press the power button if you plug the Xbox in and you have 0 volt then the SMC chip hasn't seen a High (5 volt) before the Low (0 volt) so it will not know you have pressed the button. You can then leave the meter hooked to that pin and heat the main PCB around the front where the switch board is plugged in to the main board while heating it, When the 5 volt drops to zero then use a can of freeze spray to cool one part at a time.

 

I would still add the links like the pic I posted 1st.

Cheers

SS Dave


Soft modding is like masturbating, It gets the job done but it's nothing like the real thing.

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My hand is not steady enough to safely use standard multimeter probes on the IC when it's powered on 😳

But I heated the board with a hairdryer and the problem with the power button didn't return. I also played 3 hours of videogames on it and the power button still works. And the Xbox remains off after connecting the power cord. So I hope the power button problem is solved now with that single wire 😃

 

There seem to be another problem with the board, but only when using a component cable: if the console is lifted or tapped on it when it's on, the video will get pink dots distortion or go blank if tapped too hard on it. When using RGB cable there's only little noise distortion if it's lifted/tapped. It doesn't happen when tapping on the (video) IC's. It looks like it's because the board is bend a very little bit when the console is lifted up (plastic bottom), that causes the distortion. Maybe some traces/solder broken in the board. But it works fine when normally used to play games without moving it 😃

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3 minutes ago, Megoosa said:

There seem to be another problem with the board, but only when using a component cable: if the console is lifted or tapped on it when it's on, the video will get pink dots distortion or go blank if tapped too hard on it. When using RGB cable there's only little noise distortion if it's lifted/tapped. It doesn't happen when tapping on the (video) IC's. It looks like it's because the board is bend a very little bit when the console is lifted up (plastic bottom), that causes the distortion. Maybe some traces/solder broken in the board. But it works fine when normally used to play games without moving it 😃

Try cleaning the AV port with a brush and isopropyl and the same with the AV plug.

 

Cheers

SS Dave


Soft modding is like masturbating, It gets the job done but it's nothing like the real thing.

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I cleaned the port with alcohol and a q-tip, but it's the same. Also, the distortion can't be introduced by tapping the AV-connector. It only happens when the mainboard is tapped harder or bend (like when lifting up the console). I think it really is something on the mainboard.

 

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1 hour ago, Megoosa said:

I've checked it and the pins on both the connector and the cables are ok. Also, the cable works fine on another console.

It could have dry solder joints (cracked solder joints) on the motherboard AV connector.

Upload a pic of the bottom of the board..

 

Cheers

SS Dave


Soft modding is like masturbating, It gets the job done but it's nothing like the real thing.

 

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I resoldered the whole connector the first time, only adding some fresh solder. After that it got better, but the problem was still there. The second time I resoldered it with flux added (some "no clean" flux for electronics repair) and now the problem seem to be gone 😃 I tapped the console when it's running and no more distortions on the screen 😀

It looks like this is a problem-free Xbox now 🥳

Why Xbox consoles have these problems like the broken power button traces, leaking capacitor and bad joints on the connector? Wasn't it a quality product?

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3 hours ago, Megoosa said:

I resoldered the whole connector the first time, only adding some fresh solder. After that it got better, but the problem was still there. The second time I resoldered it with flux added (some "no clean" flux for electronics repair) and now the problem seem to be gone 😃 I tapped the console when it's running and no more distortions on the screen 😀

It looks like this is a problem-free Xbox now 🥳

Why Xbox consoles have these problems like the broken power button traces, leaking capacitor and bad joints on the connector? Wasn't it a quality product?

Easy answer is these were the first run for MS in the console industry. They made mistake, but they also made changes and improvements sometimes. This has aged over 20 years now and electronics just need some maintenance from time to time. Clock caps did not leak until many years into the lifespan of the console. It will always be a quality product as long as we can tinker with it. 

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On 1/13/2023 at 10:57 AM, Megoosa said:

It looks like this is a problem-free Xbox now 🥳

That's good to here.

 

On 1/13/2023 at 10:57 AM, Megoosa said:

Why Xbox consoles have these problems like the broken power button traces, leaking capacitor and bad joints on the connector? Wasn't it a quality product?

The solder joint problem is a common issue with electronics. Most of the time I find it on connectors that get a lot of use like the power socket and the AV socket due to flexing as the plug is been pushed in and pulled out, It can also be caused by heat stress form getting hot then cold or just poor soldering in the first place.

The trace damage is not gust confined to leaking super capacitors ( clock cap ) I have seen other items that have the same damage from normal electrolytic capacitors.

I have seem many items that fail from the super cap not working things like heaters that have timers built-in, clocks that a super cap to retain the time with the power removed 

This is a 15 year old BMW car radio amplifier board that the owner complained the left speakers didn't work.

BMW-radio-trace-damage.jpg

 

Cheers

SS Dave


Soft modding is like masturbating, It gets the job done but it's nothing like the real thing.
 

   

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