Why is this happening? (Horrible lag when playing games off of HDD).

[xretrogamedevx]

I'm getting horrible lag spikes that makes the system unplayable.

I bought Mechwarrior. It plays fine off the disc. Zero problems. When I load it onto the HDD it is unplayable. It's the same with any game I load onto the HDD.

Here is an example of the booting sequence into Mechwarrior, both with and without lag.

Lagging boot: https://streamable.com/yohvt8
Normal boot: https://streamable.com/71a6ne

The lag goes on throughout the game, particularly when heavy combat is involved. Halo is even worse. You can see from just the boot logo that the FPS is like 10. Why does this happen?

I even noticed that when shutting the system completely off and powering it back on, the green xbox animation will lag at times. Watch the very end where it begins to stutter. Sometimes, however, it doesn't stutter at all.

Lagging: https://streamable.com/vdoktf
Normal: https://streamable.com/5220rt

I read that the green Xbox animation at the very beginning is algorithmically driven (not off HDD or ROM), so if it is lagging what does that say about the xbox? Is it a cpu/gpu thing?

After spending a few hundred $ getting this system up and running I couldn't be any more disappointed.

Current specs:Xbox 1.62TB Seagate Barracuda: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07H2RR55Q/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
StarTech IDE/SATA adapter: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00EOJNGC2/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
24" 40-pin 80-Wire Ribbon Cable: https://www.ebay.com/itm/274553744014

Things I've tried:

1. New 40 pin cable

2. New HDD

3. New SATA/IDE Adapter

4. Putting old IDE HDD back in via 40 pin able (works with much less lag, but still noticeable)

I'm at a loss and any/all help would be most welcome.

Thank you,

-R

[Lexieye]

I have noticed this also

There was no problem with the 500 gig upgraded HD, but when I upgraded to 1TB I noticed serious lag when a game was graphics demanding.

i originally had a cheap 80pin ide cable that corrupted my data. I swapped that for a recommended good make.

I think it’s just the ‘write-speed’ of the HD and I should of spent the extra and got an expensive SATTA

Edited February 5, 2022 by Lexieye

[xretrogamedevx]

It's been a year now and I thought I would return and see if anyone replied or had similar issues.

The system is still unusable.  I ended up filling the 2TB HDD with games, emulators, ROMs, videos, and other things just to test it out.  Games still lag and chop, videos don't play right, ROMs played from emulators on the system play slowly and are unplayable, making the overall system a massive disappointment.

The only thing I haven't tried is buying a new OG Xbox and doing this all over again, but the time and money sink just aren't worth it unless I can get a cheap-ass one for $20 on craigslist or Ebay.  I spent a few hundred dollars on this thing and it has let me down.

I ended up throwing this thing in my closet, forgetting about it, and buying a PS3, PS2, PS1, N64, Sega Genesis, XBox 360, and XBox Series X and have been having a blast with all of these systems.  Some are modded and some aren't.  I would like the OG Xbox to work properly so I can play some Halo CE and Halo 2 like the old days, but the frustration isn't worth my sanity and I now have other systems that kick so much ass.

The original videos I posted on my other threads are no longer viewable (the hosting site must have deleted them) and I do not have them on my HDD any longer, so new people to the thread can't see what the problem was.  Oh well.  I don't give up on things often but when I do it's because nothing seems to work and it's not worth the time + effort to continue.  It's not worth re-filming and re-posting.

Edited October 13, 2022 by xretrogamedevx

[KaosEngineer]

Delete all of the files in the X, Y an Z drives.  

[KaosEngineer]

Which IDE-to-SATA adapter are you using?  Did you swap out the stock 40-wire 40-pin IDE cable with an 80-wire 40-pin high-speed one?  What color is the insulation on the cable?  High-speed IDE cables with yellow insulation have been reported to not work well.

[Bowlsnapper]

8 hours ago, KaosEngineer said:

Delete all of the files in the X, Y an Z drives.  

Wait, why? That'll improve a problem like that? (Not being an ass. Seriously asking).

[HDShadow]

I note the HDD concerned is a 2TB Seagate.

Only a few months ago here or some other Xbox forum I speculated/asked about whether the HDD type fitted had an effect on performance. I was thinking about this because I'd been doing some research on backup HDDs for my PCs and had been made aware that whether the HDD is CMR/PMR (Conventional Magnet Recording/Perpendicular Magnetic Reording) or SMR (Shingled Magnetic Recording) can significantly affect read/write performance.

All Seagate Barracuda HDDs over 1TB are SMR, which is slower. I was thinking the original Xbox, because of the age of its technology, might be having problems reading and writing to this type of drive causing the lag. This is pure guesswork, I have no IT hardware qualifications to know if such a thing is even possible but it seems plausible that it could be involved.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shingled_magnetic_recording

If all other Xbox Seagate Barracuda 2TB users don't have the same problem maybe it could be a Xbox version specific issue? So the obvious additional question to ask is what Xbox version is being used in this case?

[Gary The Brown]

58 minutes ago, HDShadow said:

I note the HDD concerned is a 2TB Seagate.

Only a few months ago here or some other Xbox forum I speculated/asked about whether the HDD type fitted had an effect on performance. I was thinking about this because I'd been doing some research on backup HDDs for my PCs and had been made aware that whether the HDD is CMR/PMR (Conventional Magnet Recording/Perpendicular Magnetic Reording) or SMR (Shingled Magnetic Recording) can significantly affect read/write performance.

All Seagate Barracuda HDDs over 1TB are SMR, which is slower. I was thinking the original Xbox, because of the age of its technology, might be having problems reading and writing to this type of drive causing the lag. This is pure guesswork, I have no IT hardware qualifications to know if such a thing is even possible but it seems plausible that it could be involved.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shingled_magnetic_recording

If all other Xbox Seagate Barracuda 2TB users don't have the same problem maybe it could be a Xbox version specific issue? So the obvious additional question to ask is what Xbox version is being used in this case?

The speed of SMR is only really slower when writing not when reading because of how it works. maybe the SMR is causing issues with the cache partitions but if the games run fine from the discs in this Xbox then that is not the issue.

It could be because of the way them games are mastered on the disc to have files in a set order to allow for faster loading, If i remember correctly some games always played slower when loaded to the hard drive because of file locations, because of how much they optimised the games every extra clock cycle needed to seek data because of location on the drive is a slowdown. them games could probably be brought back to original speed by playing from ISO, or using an SSD.

[xretrogamedevx]

Thanks for the replies!  I'm glad I checked back; new interest.

I have the 80pin, 40 wire Chimeric Systems cable that I specifically ordered from this site (although I don't see it listed anymore):
https://chimericsystems.com/

I have a startech SATA adapter (the good, red one I spend like $25 on).

** I noticed problems got less when I changed from the 2TB Seagate SMR HDD to a Western Digital HDD (can't remember the model number, and don't want to take apart xbox again.  The SMR was DEFINITELY an issue, although fixing this didn't completely fix it.  I ended up throwing the 2TB Seagate drive into my PC to use as a generic HDD but it was so slow, and I was past the return window, that I ended up just throwing it out.  I will never buy an SMR drive ever again, even for regular use.  They are that bad.

I was thinking maybe two things were the problem:
1) Some sort of power issue?  If I'm using a 3.5" drive will that cause the system to allocate more power to that device and underpower the GPU/CPU?
2) Seek times between reading/writing data (rather than reading off the Disc and caching the drive, it has to read from the drive as well as cache during gameplay).  With 2TB filled to the max maybe the seek times are longer because the arm has to move all over the place to read and write data?

The only thing I haven't tried is using an xbox that isn't 1.6 or buying a hardmodded one.  Maybe in the near future I'll buy a 1.0 with an aladdin chip and try that out.  I successfully modded a PS2 and run games flawlessly off the HDD, so I know this type of thing is possible on other systems.  Maybe I just have to buy a pre-built system that already works and then never mess with it again.  I see hardmodded 1.0s on ebay all the time.  If I had bought that in the beginning I would have actually saved money, since I ended up buying everything twice trying to diagnose possible component failure.

I'm just pissed because I spent all this money and it still isn't acceptable, and I don't want to just write it off but don't want to end up spending more money to accomplish nothing.

Edited October 15, 2022 by xretrogamedevx

[xretrogamedevx]

I found a link for reference on another site.  I posted this last year.
https://www.emuxtras.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=187&t=7441

NOTE: The Seagate 2TB is no longer in the XBox.  I have this instead:
Western Digital Internal 2TB HDD 3.5” SATA/64MB Cache 7200 RPM(WD2003FYYS)

The WD is a CMR drive.

I'm wondering if, since the drive is full, seeking is the problem.  I'm going to order a cheap $240GB SSD for like $20 on amazon and test it out, since this should remove physical delay with the HDD arm moving.

Edited October 15, 2022 by xretrogamedevx

[HDShadow]

A bit radical throwing out a perfectly decent HDD - I specifically bought a Seagate 2TB Barracuda because it was cheap and I needed the storage space for PC backups.

It may be slow for primary drive use and particularly externally via USB v2.0 but I'm using it in a dual eSATA and USB v3.0 external housing and its plenty fast enough with either for that purpose. CrystalDiskMark shows it is far faster than the 500GB Seagate used in a USB v2.0 external enclosure I was using for backup before that. 

[KaosEngineer]

On 10/14/2022 at 12:13 AM, Bowlsnapper said:

Wait, why? That'll improve a problem like that? (Not being an ass. Seriously asking).

I've seen it fix games that either don't start at all or are running slowly.  YMMV.

[xretrogamedevx]

SSD had no effect.

Honestly I don't have the patience anymore.  Hours upon hours diagnosing and testing.  More money spent.  More sanity lost.

Reverted to factory default xbox.  No softmod.  Green boot screen.  Playing Halo 2 like a charm.  Even threw the old IDE HDD in there.  If it goes, it goes, but at least I'm playing the system now rather than messing with it.

Take care everyone.  Thanks for trying. 

[Bowlsnapper]

5 hours ago, xretrogamedevx said:

SSD had no effect.

Honestly I don't have the patience anymore.  Hours upon hours diagnosing and testing.  More money spent.  More sanity lost.

Reverted to factory default xbox.  No softmod.  Green boot screen.  Playing Halo 2 like a charm.  Even threw the old IDE HDD in there.  If it goes, it goes, but at least I'm playing the system now rather than messing with it.

Take care everyone.  Thanks for trying. 

This makes me sad. This should not be the case. This is BULLSHIT.

[xretrogamedevx]

It is.  I'll tell you what.  In the near future I'm going to buy a hardmodded xbox off ebay and report back.  Maybe a month or two, depending on price.  I hate failing at things and I'm at wits end with this thing.  Maybe if I buy it pre-configured that someone else setup I won't have issues.

[coldasijs]

@xretrogamedevx man that sucks. I can’t of anything other then maybe to check if your IDE jumper is correct for the HDD, so whether it’s in Master/Slave or the other. If that’s ok then likely something is broken on your XBOX. I don’t know what could explain this, but this mainly due to my lack of knowledge on this matter. Luckily a replacement shouldn’t be too expensive. Here in Europe you could grab a hardmodded one for €50.

My xbox has been running perfectly from both the original and an SSD. And as far as I can find nobody else is suffering from this problem. Anyway good luck, hopefully you can find a cheap replacement that works. Not sure where your located, but maybe somebody on the forum has one laying around.

Edited October 18, 2022 by coldasijs

[xretrogamedevx]

Jesus, for 50 Euro maybe I'll have it shipped from there.  I'll try hardmod and maybe I can find a cheap on at a thrift store here, non-modded, for like $20-30.  The only thing I haven't tried is a new xbox, which is probably what I should have done in the beginning.  I just figured the components failed or something; who knows.

I'll report back in a month or so.

[Bowlsnapper]

8 hours ago, xretrogamedevx said:

Jesus, for 50 Euro maybe I'll have it shipped from there.  I'll try hardmod and maybe I can find a cheap on at a thrift store here, non-modded, for like $20-30.  The only thing I haven't tried is a new xbox, which is probably what I should have done in the beginning.  I just figured the components failed or something; who knows.

I'll report back in a month or so.

If you look hard enough on eBay, you can find one for 50 bucks shipped. I find them priced that low with dumbass, easily fixable problems that OUR community is well familiar with but that stump normal people just trying to turn things over for a quick profit. Things like black and white or discolored video output (Dirty A/V port) or a disc drive that wont open, which is just a belt fix. I got a Halo edition recently for 170 shipped and it was listed as having a drive that wouldn't open... It worked fine when I got it. 

[xretrogamedevx]

That's good to know, thanks.  I bet that Halo Edition is real nice, congrats!

[Bowlsnapper]

2 minutes ago, xretrogamedevx said:

That's good to know, thanks.  I bet that Halo Edition is real nice, congrats!

Dude. I completely disassembled it and gave it the dish soap treatment. I put it back together and it looked BRAND NEW. I had never seen one in person until then. I had always wanted one when they came out, but I was too young to have a job then. The green case is REALLY beautiful. Now I have to get some genuine Halo controllers to match it... or just get green S controllers and put some Etsy "Halo" badges on them.

[xretrogamedevx]

I'm looking on Ebay right now and they're selling for $300-$500.  Good job on that find!!

I've seen a lot of stuff online (old ps2s, xboxes, gamecubes) that no one cleans.  It's like they dig it out of some dusty crawlspace and list it as is.  The fact that you could get it for $170 and make it look mint is pretty damn cool.

I probably don't need to tell you but careful with those controllers.  I had to order 5 of them before I could find one that was in decent shape.  Most have worn joysticks (can't even aim because there's no grip), sticky buttons, or just general damage.  People list them on Ebay as "tested, working, very good" and you get it and it's like "wtf dude?".  I sent 4 back.  Ended up paying $35 for the good one.  You need some mint controllers to go with that mint box.  Keep that thing forever my man.

 

 

[zatchbot]

In the last month have got a Halo box w/ 2 green controllers and basic cables for $200, as well as a Crystal bundle that included a MS component cable unexpectedly for $220 (even still had the matching warranty card, but no box). I also grabbed a basic bundle for $65 and a working mobo HDD combo for $40. All prices were after shipping and tax. The stuff is out there, you just need to be patient and be ready to grab what is reasonable as soon as you see it.

 

Good luck!

[Bowlsnapper]

I've noticed that with the Halo editions, people seem to be splitting up the controllers from the consoles because they can get more money if they sell them seperately. Sellout bastards. Genuine Halo controllers are typically 50-60 bucks or more. I've been lucky with controller buys and haven't had any partially functioning units yet. But I appreciate the tip and will be careful, 'cause luck runs out sooner or later, to quote Jeff Daniels.

[mj9977]

Any updates?  Have been having similar issues but clearing the cache (x-y-z) partitions seems to have solved the issue

[Puritan001]

I am at a point in my life that if I build an xbox I do a full re cap. All the power supply and motherboard capacitors that are electrolytic get replaced ( I no longer solder but jakos electronics has done great for work for me).

I also like to put a open xenium mod chip, star tech sata adapter, and 80 wire ultra ide cable. I prefer cmr western digital black hard drives. 

I usually replace thermal paste with mx4 and lap the heat sink. 

 

Is a lot of work and it's exs.

 

However I've never had any issues with an xbox after doing these steps...

 

I believe you may have a power issue,  and full recap may fix it,  or the hard drives you selected are not great for this application, or both. 

Clearing cache and delete e udata and tdata can sometimes help.

 

I have experienced similar issues with wd blue and Seagate hybrid drives (like barracuta) they have power saving and smr or hybrid supposedly similar to being part ssd? But once I changed to western digital black I no longer suffered these issues.  If you use a wd black and have issues then I'd think it's a power issue. Most of the capacitors in these machines are dying and should be replaced imo.

 

Anyway happy gaming. 

 

And happy holidays