Zer0_1Sum Posted November 24, 2020 Report Share Posted November 24, 2020 (edited) Hi! Couple of days ago I decided to try repair my xbox which has been sitting on my shelf for at least 15 years after dying suddenly. I opened up a thread on reddit here, and chatted with KaosEngineeer over there. To sum up the current situation: -The xbox is unresponsive when pressing eject and power button, no sign of life. Back in the days it was repaired under warranty (substitution of the PSU) and then repaired and modded with Aladdin and Evo X. -Opening it up I noticed that the clock capacitor had leaked, but seemingly not caused any corrosion. I removed the cap and cleaned up with isopropyl alcohol. - I tried checking the PSU and it seems to work, giving out 3.3 Volts on the standby contact (brown in my case). I tried short circuiting the standby with the PowON (white) contact by using a piece of wire metal, and I verified that the lines (orange, red and yellow) are more or less in line with the pinout (instead of being 5 Volts there are 5.27 Volts and instead of 12 Volts there are 10.73 Volts). - I checked both visually and with a multimeter that the 4 traces under the motherboard are uninterrupted. In particular, looking at this image: There is continuity between the cyan and violet pins on the PIC chip and the cyan and violet contact in the bottom of the image. The 4 resistances in the same image seem to work fine, with a value of about 10 kOhm each. -I checked that the front panel eject and power button work by verifying that, when pressed, they connect to ground the red and blue traces next to the 10kOhm signal resistances. -Now, the stangest thing: if I give power, the brown contact is at 3.3 volts (verified while the psu is attached to the motherboard by inserting the multimeter probe in the top space between the plastic plug and the brown wire), but for some reason the PIC pins that should have the same voltage when the console is plugged (before and after pressing the eject and power button) remain at 0 Volt no matter if I press the front panel buttons or not and no matter if I choose a different point for ground ( I tried using all the black cables and the RF cage). So, basically I'm stuck. Any ideas? Thank you for help Edited November 24, 2020 by Zer0_1Sum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS_Dave Posted November 24, 2020 Report Share Posted November 24, 2020 11 hours ago, Zer0_1Sum said: I tried checking the PSU and it seems to work, giving out 3.3 Volts on the standby contact (brown in my case). I tried short circuiting the standby with the PowON (white) contact by using a piece of wire metal, and I verified that the lines (orange, red and yellow) are more or less in line with the pinout (instead of being 5 Volts there are 5.27 Volts and instead of 12 Volts there are 10.73 Volts). Those voltages are fine. What voltage are you getting on the blue/purple pins on the PIC? The purple and blue pins marked on the PIC should be approx 3.3 volt unless you press the power or eject buttons.. Cheers SS Dave Soft modding is like masturbating, It gets the job done but it's nothing like the real thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zer0_1Sum Posted November 24, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2020 Quote What voltage are you getting on the blue/purple pins on the PIC? The purple and blue pins marked on the PIC should be approx 3.3 volt unless you press the power or eject buttons.. I measured it again just now out of caution. It is 0 volts, regardless if I'm pushing the power or eject button or not. It is as if, even though the 3.3 volts are available, they don't reach the PIC pins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS_Dave Posted November 24, 2020 Report Share Posted November 24, 2020 9 hours ago, Zer0_1Sum said: I measured it again just now out of caution. It is 0 volts, regardless if I'm pushing the power or eject button or not. It is as if, even though the 3.3 volts are available, they don't reach the PIC pins Can you test to power and eject pins in the 10 pin socket Both should be approx 3.3 volt Cheers SS Dave Soft modding is like masturbating, It gets the job done but it's nothing like the real thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zer0_1Sum Posted November 24, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2020 32 minutes ago, SS_Dave said: Can you test to power and eject pins in the 10 pin socket Both should be approx 3.3 volt Cheers SS Dave Soft modding is like masturbating, It gets the job done but it's nothing like the real thing. If I put the black probe of the multimeter on any ground contact and the red probe on those pins it stays at 0 volt. However, if I put the red probe on the brown standby voltage cable an use the black probe on those 2 contact, I still get 0 volts, but the two contacts above them (which are indicated as ground in the schemes I found) display 3.3 volts. Am I measuring the tension wrong? I redid the measure you suggested before using this new probes setup, red probe on brown cable and black proble on cyan and purple pins, and this time I get 0 volts without pressing the buttons and 3.3 volts while pressing the buttons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS_Dave Posted November 24, 2020 Report Share Posted November 24, 2020 You should have the black probe on ground the metal shield is ok to use or the black wires in the 12 pin power plug. Cheers SS Dave Soft modding is like masturbating, It gets the job done but it's nothing like the real thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zer0_1Sum Posted November 29, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2020 Quick update: -After resoldering the bottom of the brown pin I got 3.3 volts wherever they should have been. Xbox still wouldn't turn on. -I shorted the brown standby and white PowON contacts on on the PSU connector (while plugged into the mobo obviously), and now the xbox turns on as soon as I plug it, but it flashes between red and half green - half orange, with no video output. -Tried reconnecting the HDD and the DVD reader and plugging the AV into a TV, no change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossfader Posted December 9, 2020 Report Share Posted December 9, 2020 Did you check the Caps in front of the CPU? I have a xbox with no sign of life, after change the caps it works like a charm. It is not expansive and a chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zer0_1Sum Posted December 13, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2020 (edited) On 12/9/2020 at 10:02 AM, Crossfader said: Did you check the Caps in front of the CPU? I have a xbox with no sign of life, after change the caps it works like a charm. It is not expansive and a chance. Visually, the caps seem to be ok. The only one leaking was the clock capacitor, and I removed it, but it didn't leave any significant damage to the board or the traces around it. I also checked those capacitors with multimeter, their resistance increases with time as it should if they are working. Will check them again. Edited December 13, 2020 by Zer0_1Sum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zer0_1Sum Posted December 15, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2020 Is it possible for the 5 capacitors in front of the CPU to be busted even though they visually look fine? What is their role by the way? Unfortunately I don't have the proper equipment to test them while on board, the multimeter reads tell me nothing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossfader Posted December 20, 2020 Report Share Posted December 20, 2020 On 12/15/2020 at 7:33 PM, Zer0_1Sum said: Is it possible for the 5 capacitors in front of the CPU to be busted even though they visually look fine? What is their role by the way? Unfortunately I don't have the proper equipment to test them while on board, the multimeter reads tell me nothing Yes this is definitely possible. I have replaced caps with only a small curved on the top. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corona2222 Posted December 21, 2020 Report Share Posted December 21, 2020 On 12/16/2020 at 5:33 AM, Zer0_1Sum said: Is it possible for the 5 capacitors in front of the CPU to be busted even though they visually look fine? What is their role by the way? I recently replaced those 5 caps on v1.6, one cap looked fine but had an overly high incorrect capacitance reading., so yes. As for their role: "The 3 caps next to the CPU are smoothing the 1.8 volt rail and the 1 near the power connector is for the 5 volt supply." source Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulkchart32 Posted December 21, 2020 Report Share Posted December 21, 2020 On 12/15/2020 at 12:33 PM, Zer0_1Sum said: Is it possible for the 5 capacitors in front of the CPU to be busted even though they visually look fine? What is their role by the way? Unfortunately I don't have the proper equipment to test them while on board, the multimeter reads tell me nothing the caps can look absolutely perfect and still be bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulkchart32 Posted December 21, 2020 Report Share Posted December 21, 2020 On 11/23/2020 at 6:14 PM, Zer0_1Sum said: Hi! Couple of days ago I decided to try repair my xbox which has been sitting on my shelf for at least 15 years after dying suddenly. I opened up a thread on reddit here, and chatted with KaosEngineeer over there. To sum up the current situation: -The xbox is unresponsive when pressing eject and power button, no sign of life. Back in the days it was repaired under warranty (substitution of the PSU) and then repaired and modded with Aladdin and Evo X. -Opening it up I noticed that the clock capacitor had leaked, but seemingly not caused any corrosion. I removed the cap and cleaned up with isopropyl alcohol. - I tried checking the PSU and it seems to work, giving out 3.3 Volts on the standby contact (brown in my case). I tried short circuiting the standby with the PowON (white) contact by using a piece of wire metal, and I verified that the lines (orange, red and yellow) are more or less in line with the pinout (instead of being 5 Volts there are 5.27 Volts and instead of 12 Volts there are 10.73 Volts). - I checked both visually and with a multimeter that the 4 traces under the motherboard are uninterrupted. In particular, looking at this image: There is continuity between the cyan and violet pins on the PIC chip and the cyan and violet contact in the bottom of the image. The 4 resistances in the same image seem to work fine, with a value of about 10 kOhm each. -I checked that the front panel eject and power button work by verifying that, when pressed, they connect to ground the red and blue traces next to the 10kOhm signal resistances. -Now, the stangest thing: if I give power, the brown contact is at 3.3 volts (verified while the psu is attached to the motherboard by inserting the multimeter probe in the top space between the plastic plug and the brown wire), but for some reason the PIC pins that should have the same voltage when the console is plugged (before and after pressing the eject and power button) remain at 0 Volt no matter if I press the front panel buttons or not and no matter if I choose a different point for ground ( I tried using all the black cables and the RF cage). So, basically I'm stuck. Any ideas? Thank you for help try changing the caps in font of the heatsinks. they can look perfect and still be bad. if that doesn't fix it, try finding a new pus for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zer0_1Sum Posted December 23, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2020 Thank you all guys! The replacement psu I ordered few weeks ago just arrived, and it seems to work correctly, but using it didn't change anything in xbox behaviour. It is still dead, unless I short PowOn and Standby, and in that case it flashes with irregular timing between red and half orange / half yellow-ish. I think I can completely exclude the problem is caused by the power supply. I'll try changing those capacitors. Are these good replacements? https://eu.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Nichicon/PLG0J152MDO1?qs=%2BxyxD9GtKu0GdHKI1cnZ8g== Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zer0_1Sum Posted January 2, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2021 Hi guys, happy new year! The capacitors haven't arrived yet, but in the meantime I started desoldering the old KZE capacitors. So far I desoldered two. They both have a capacity of 1650 uF, which is within the 20% margin from 1500 uF. Their ESR is around 0.23-0.24 Ohms. Is this value good or bad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS_Dave Posted January 3, 2021 Report Share Posted January 3, 2021 I tested some Wurth brand 1500uf 6.3 volt and some Nichion 1500uf caps Nichion 10 volt read 1710uf ESR 0.01 ohm Nichion 6.3 volt read 1521uf ESR 0.01 ohm Wurth read 1444uf ESR 0.00 ohm 2 hours ago, Zer0_1Sum said: Their ESR is around 0.23-0.24 Ohms But for a original cap I would say it's on the high side but for a 18 year old cap it's probably ok. Have you heard the saying "Flogging a dead horse" I think this saying applies to this Xbox. Cheers SS Dave Soft modding is like masturbating, It gets the job done but it's nothing like the real thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zer0_1Sum Posted January 3, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2021 1 hour ago, SS_Dave said: Nichion 6.3 volt read 1521uf ESR 0.01 ohm That's over 20 times the value I detect with my original old capacitors. Why do you say such value is ok for a 18 years old capacitor? I've tried now searching some datasheet (these caps are Chemi-Con KZE series) and I found this: http://www.chemi-con.co.jp/cgi-bin/CAT_DB/SEARCH/cat_db_al.cgi?e=e&j=p&pdfname=kze There is no indication for the ESR, but there is the maximum impedance at 100 kHz. I've seen it treated at the same as the ESR (for example by EEVblog), and for a 6.3 volts 1500 uF capacitor it should be 0.023 Ohms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaosEngineer Posted January 3, 2021 Report Share Posted January 3, 2021 3 hours ago, Zer0_1Sum said: Hi guys, happy new year! The capacitors haven't arrived yet, but in the meantime I started desoldering the old KZE capacitors. So far I desoldered two. They both have a capacity of 1650 uF, which is within the 20% margin from 1500 uF. Their ESR is around 0.23-0.24 Ohms. Is this value good or bad? The ESR of KZE caps should be 0.023 Ohms, not 0.23. https://www.chemi-con.com/upload/files/7/5/32389236352d6c56e8f45b.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zer0_1Sum Posted January 3, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2021 14 minutes ago, KaosEngineer said: The ESR of KZE caps should be 0.023 Ohms, not 0.23. https://www.chemi-con.com/upload/files/7/5/32389236352d6c56e8f45b.pdf Hi Kaos. Ok, so these two capacitors are definetely busted, correct? Tomorrow I'm going to desolder the remaining three, and hopefully the next week the replacements will arrive (by the way, I bought these https://eu.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Nichicon/PLG0J152MDO1?qs=%2BxyxD9GtKu0GdHKI1cnZ8g== , hopefully they are a good enough choice). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zer0_1Sum Posted January 3, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2021 I removed the remaining capacitors. Just as the first two their capacitance is about 1650 uF, and their ESR is about 0.2 Ohms, so an order of magnitude above what their datasheet says. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaosEngineer Posted January 3, 2021 Report Share Posted January 3, 2021 13 hours ago, Zer0_1Sum said: Hi Kaos. Ok, so these two capacitors are definetely busted, correct? Tomorrow I'm going to desolder the remaining three, and hopefully the next week the replacements will arrive (by the way, I bought these https://eu.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Nichicon/PLG0J152MDO1?qs=%2BxyxD9GtKu0GdHKI1cnZ8g== , hopefully they are a good enough choice). They should work well. They have a much lower ESR than the original KZE series caps (0.009 vs 0.023 Ohms) and a much higher maximum ripple current (6300 vs 1820 milliamps). Edit: I read the values from the wrong line of the datasheet for the PLG series caps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS_Dave Posted January 3, 2021 Report Share Posted January 3, 2021 18 hours ago, Zer0_1Sum said: That's over 20 times the value I detect with my original old capacitors. Why do you say such value is ok for a 18 years old capacitor? Opps for some reason I read 0.024. Cheers SS Dave Soft modding is like masturbating, It gets the job done but it's nothing like the real thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zer0_1Sum Posted February 6, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2021 For a final update to this thread: New capacitors arrived, I installed them and..nothing changed.It seems like whatever damage occured it is nothing I can take care of with my tools and skills unfortunately. I ordered a new motherboard and hard disk, they arrived and the xbox is back to life. I noticed two things : For some reason the colour of the new motherboard is more bright than that of my old one. I have no idea if this is due to oxidation of the old motherboard after the clock capacitor leaked or if it has to do with a difference between the Rev of the two v1.0 motherboards (old one is PAL, new one NTSC) After swapping the motheboard the xbox wouldn't turn on, so I also changed the psu, and afterward it worked flawlessly. It appears that on top of whatever damage the old motherboard sustained, the psu was also not working. I wonder if it is possible to repair the old psu though. I've read that the psu also has an SMC chip like the motherboard, and I suspect the might be the problem. Thanks to everyone who helped my out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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