XBox Psu Project

[DobaMuffin]

22 minutes ago, ttsgeb said:

I have one of these kicking about somewhere that I can track down tonight and try to get a scan of what's going on, but I suspect it'll be more of nothing.
https://jyetech.com/dso-138-oscilloscope-diy-kit/

Hopefully we can help you figure out what's wrong.

[ttsgeb]

I found the problem: I made the footprint wrong.  Good thing boards are cheap these days.

[DobaMuffin]

5 hours ago, ttsgeb said:

I found the problem: I made the footprint wrong.  Good thing boards are cheap these days.

Lol. It's always something simple. Glad you could figure out the issue. Hopefully it's the only issue there was.

[DobaMuffin]

On 6/19/2020 at 2:35 AM, ttsgeb said:

I found the problem: I made the footprint wrong.  Good thing boards are cheap these days.

Any luck on the new boards?

[ttsgeb]

I just threw together revision 2, and still have the issue with the 5v line not producing any voltage.  I'm not entirely sure what's going on, and I've been struggling to find the motivation to work on this project for a while.  I also learned that I chose the transistors for controlling the power poorly, and picked new ones out that were supposed to be the same footprint, but they turned out to be about 30% larger, which makes them completely unworkable on this board. I'll have to look more into what happened there and apparently work on my datasheet reading skills.

[DobaMuffin]

7 hours ago, ttsgeb said:

I just threw together revision 2, and still have the issue with the 5v line not producing any voltage.  I'm not entirely sure what's going on, and I've been struggling to find the motivation to work on this project for a while.  I also learned that I chose the transistors for controlling the power poorly, and picked new ones out that were supposed to be the same footprint, but they turned out to be about 30% larger, which makes them completely unworkable on this board. I'll have to look more into what happened there and apparently work on my datasheet reading skills.

I will see if I can create a design too, as I have a few xbox motherboards that need power supplies and I'd rather not buy a bunch of old psu's for them.

Reading datasheets can be tough sometimes, and we all make mistakes so no worries. Hopefully though, you gain valuable skills from this project. And good luck with trying to figure out the issue(s).

 

DobaMuffin

[bulkchart32]

On 5/24/2020 at 8:06 AM, ttsgeb said:

This is going to start out as just being copied directly over  from my thread on BitBuilt about the project.

https://bitbuilt.net/forums/index.php?threads/xboxpsu.3387/

The xbox has some mildly odd power requirements. It uses the same 20 pin Molex MiniFit Jr connector that an ATX PSU output, however the pinout is completely different.

As it stands, the typical solution is to use a PicoPSU, a small ATX PSU, a modify it to work with the original xbox.  PicoPSUs can be had for around $15, the power supplies for them can be had for around $10.  It's a very inexpensive solution.  Traditionally when this is done, the Power OK and Power On lines are ignored, the PSU is set to always on, and the wires are run all catywumpus to get to where they need to go.  While this solution works, it's definitely a hack, and I believe we can do better.

 

So what are the xbox's actual power requirements?

While I haven't actually cut up a power supply and tried to get the xbox to full load while measuring the current draw, I have a V1.1 PSU here that handily has the power requirements right on the label.

Max Output Power: 96W

DC Output:

+5V -- 13.2A

+3.3V -- 4.8A

+12V --1.2A

+3VSB -- 0.045A

I hope it's safe to assume that further revisions of the xbox had similar or lower power draw.  Regardless, this seems like a good starting point.

 

So, how do I plan to accomplish this?

With 4x LM2678 Regulators from Texas Instruments.

http://www.ti.com/product/LM2678

Why 4 regulators for 3 voltages?

The LM2678 is a 5A regulator. I need 13.2A on the 5V line.  Having looked at the specs for the PicoPSUs that seem to work just fine, they're rated for 8A on the 5V line. This leads me to believe that 10A should suffice, so I'll need two regulators for 5V.

I'll also need a 12V regulator, as I plan to run this off of an easily obtainable laptop power supply rather than needing to source an 8A 12V supply.

I will also be designing a smaller footprint alternative that runs off of 12v for when space is of the highest concern.  I'll likely also break down the xbox's power requirements even further at some point to see if I can't design a PSU that allows for aggressive trimming, but that's much further down the road.
--------------------------------------------

I've designed the first iteration of the 24v board, it's 60*32mm. Now that it's done, I don't like it for a variety of reasons. I'm going to try again, putting the low profile components on the backside of the board and the tall components on the topside of it. Maybe I'll be able to squish it down a bit more in the process.
--------------------------------------------

There, that's a little better.
27.5*49.25 mm
--------------------------------------------

Oh, hey, I worked on this a bit.
I ditched the 12v regulator and changed it to 12v in. I also had to source different inductors, which are sadly larger, so the whole board got a couple of mm wider in the process.

26.5mm*57.2mm

I think I'm gonna actually order this one, and see if it works.

--------------------------------------------

I've since looked at the most recent revision and noticed a couple of flaws in it. I've repaired those flaws, and I'm gonna sleep on it again, look at it with fresh eyes tomorrow, and probably order it.

what's the reason that u want to use a non oem psu?

[DobaMuffin]

21 minutes ago, bulkchart32 said:

what's the reason that u want to use a non oem psu?

I'm not the person you quoted, but I do have some possible insight into why.

OEM power supplies can get expensive sometimes, and they do fail from time to time. If a diy psu can be build for a decent price, and is stable and safe, then it is worth building. Whether for a system you have without a psu, or with a failed psu. Another possibility is if you are making a slim xbox build, then any space saved can make things easier.

Personally, I can only find original power supplies for about $30 CAD which is more than I've paid for pretty much any of my xbox systems. In my case, I'm interested in a diy power supply solution as it would save me quite a bit of money vs buying several power supplies to power the xbox motherboards I have at home.

And as always, as these consoles age, parts start to fail, and what stockpile of replacement parts there was start to shrink. By having new parts to replace the old failing parts, you help prolong the life of these consoles. I know that the xbox psu can be repaired most of the time by replacing the capacitors, but not everybody has the skills to do that, and sometimes the issue is more than just the capacitors.

So that's my insight into why, but judging by ttsgeb's first post, I'd say that they are looking for a more elegant solution to getting a cheap psu for the xbox instead of going the route of using a picoPSU.

[ttsgeb]

I'm specifically going for something small to use in the slim xboxen that's a better fit than the picoPSUs are.
This definitely isn't going to come out cheaper than a used OEM PSU, the BOM is around $30, but it fits in the fan cutout on the motherboard with room to spare, so it's great for size reduction... If I can get it working.

[DobaMuffin]

17 minutes ago, ttsgeb said:

I'm specifically going for something small to use in the slim xboxen that's a better fit than the picoPSUs are.
This definitely isn't going to come out cheaper than a used OEM PSU, the BOM is around $30, but it fits in the fan cutout on the motherboard with room to spare, so it's great for size reduction... If I can get it working.

I would still choose to purchase a new psu if proven to be stable and reliable over the old oem PSUs. Just something about not using old and used parts when new parts would cost about the same.

 

As for your BOM. What is costing you the most? The pcb's?

[ttsgeb]

In the quantities I'm getting, the boards are the most expensive part, at about $6 each, most of that being shipping charges. Otherwise, it's the inductors, which run about $4 each.

[DobaMuffin]

7 hours ago, ttsgeb said:

In the quantities I'm getting, the boards are the most expensive part, at about $6 each, most of that being shipping charges. Otherwise, it's the inductors, which run about $4 each.

Ah totally forgot to check prices for inductors. That would make sense then.

Hopefully you figure out the issue that's causing the 5v line to not work. That way a your hard work wasn't for nothing.  

[big F]

Who are you getting the boards from. I use PCBway and they are quite cheap.

I often use Aliexpress for components, as quantity purchases can be better. But lead times can be long. I also use Lcsc.com

[mikemaddy55]

Thanks to everyone for this helpful info.

[ttsgeb]

So, I have no current plans to look at this project again, as other projects have taken over my life.
As such, I'm offering up all the kicad files I have for it, and if someone wants the non-operational prototypes to try and troubleshoot, I'll send them your way for the cost of shipping.
Sorry I didn't get further on this project. Hopefully someone else can take it up and turn it into something functional.
 XboxPSU.zip

[KaosEngineer]

3 hours ago, ttsgeb said:

So, I have no current plans to look at this project again, as other projects have taken over my life.
As such, I'm offering up all the kicad files I have for it, and if someone wants the non-operational prototypes to try and troubleshoot, I'll send them your way for the cost of shipping.
Sorry I didn't get further on this project. Hopefully someone else can take it up and turn it into something functional.
 XboxPSU.zip

The attachment's not accessible.  I'd be interested but not sure how much time I have to devote to making it functional either.

[ttsgeb]

The attachment has been fixed

[DobaMuffin]

13 hours ago, ttsgeb said:

So, I have no current plans to look at this project again, as other projects have taken over my life.
As such, I'm offering up all the kicad files I have for it, and if someone wants the non-operational prototypes to try and troubleshoot, I'll send them your way for the cost of shipping.
Sorry I didn't get further on this project. Hopefully someone else can take it up and turn it into something functional.
 XboxPSU.zip

You don't have to apologize for not getting further on this project. You put in the effort and got some prototypes created. That's more than a lot of projects ever get accomplished. 

I hope your other projects go well. I'd see about working on it personally, but uni just started so I'm going to be having very little time to do personal projects. I wish you the best.

[OGXbox Admin]

This is a great post and I'm interested in taking it a bit further. It's ironic that SS Dave and I were sort of doing this at the same time. 

I just took a m-atx power supply and got it to work like the stock power supply on my 1.4 motherboard. 

I used an NPN transistor to more or less act like a relay. So when the POW ON signal goes high from the Xbox, the transistor holds the ATX POW ON line to ground. 

KSP 2222a. Pin 1 is emitter. Pin 2 is Base. Pin 3 is Collector. 

Pin 1 to gnd. pin 2 to xbox POW ON. Pin 3 to ATX POW ON. 

I also used some 5v to 3.3v step downs to change the ATX 5v power ok and standby to 3.3v that Xbox expects. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07FCMF6SV/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[OGXbox Admin]

If anyone cares, measuring the input to the m-atx psu, I supply it with 12.6vdc. On boot when the xbox is checking the dvd drive it draws 7.1 amps. That puts us at almost 90w. It drops to 5.1 amps at unleashx dash. It doesn't change much when running a game. That is with the DVD drive in and full 3.5" hdd. Obviously power consumption can be reduced by removing the dvd drive motors from the equation and using a 2.5" hdd, ssd, or some form of flash... which don't reduce the draw much at idle. That ~5 amps is kind of what we're stuck with. I've built a few that run on battery power and it's difficult to get 6+ hours once you include an lcd screen. You REALLY have to invest in the battery bank.... unless someone else can come up with some efficiency improvements or things that can simply be removed. 

[SS_Dave]

On 5/24/2020 at 11:06 PM, ttsgeb said:

This is going to start out as just being copied directly over  from my thread on BitBuilt about the project.

https://bitbuilt.net/forums/index.php?threads/xboxpsu.3387/

The xbox has some mildly odd power requirements. It uses the same 20 pin Molex MiniFit Jr connector that an ATX PSU output, however the pinout is completely different.

As it stands, the typical solution is to use a PicoPSU, a small ATX PSU, a modify it to work with the original xbox.  PicoPSUs can be had for around $15, the power supplies for them can be had for around $10.  It's a very inexpensive solution.  Traditionally when this is done, the Power OK and Power On lines are ignored, the PSU is set to always on, and the wires are run all catywumpus to get to where they need to go.  While this solution works, it's definitely a hack, and I believe we can do better.

 

So what are the xbox's actual power requirements?

While I haven't actually cut up a power supply and tried to get the xbox to full load while measuring the current draw, I have a V1.1 PSU here that handily has the power requirements right on the label.

Max Output Power: 96W

DC Output:

+5V -- 13.2A

+3.3V -- 4.8A

+12V --1.2A

+3VSB -- 0.045A

I hope it's safe to assume that further revisions of the xbox had similar or lower power draw.  Regardless, this seems like a good starting point.

 

So, how do I plan to accomplish this?

With 4x LM2678 Regulators from Texas Instruments.

http://www.ti.com/product/LM2678

Why 4 regulators for 3 voltages?

The LM2678 is a 5A regulator. I need 13.2A on the 5V line.  Having looked at the specs for the PicoPSUs that seem to work just fine, they're rated for 8A on the 5V line. This leads me to believe that 10A should suffice, so I'll need two regulators for 5V.

I'll also need a 12V regulator, as I plan to run this off of an easily obtainable laptop power supply rather than needing to source an 8A 12V supply.

I will also be designing a smaller footprint alternative that runs off of 12v for when space is of the highest concern.  I'll likely also break down the xbox's power requirements even further at some point to see if I can't design a PSU that allows for aggressive trimming, but that's much further down the road.
--------------------------------------------

I've designed the first iteration of the 24v board, it's 60*32mm. Now that it's done, I don't like it for a variety of reasons. I'm going to try again, putting the low profile components on the backside of the board and the tall components on the topside of it. Maybe I'll be able to squish it down a bit more in the process.
--------------------------------------------

There, that's a little better.
27.5*49.25 mm
--------------------------------------------

Oh, hey, I worked on this a bit.
I ditched the 12v regulator and changed it to 12v in. I also had to source different inductors, which are sadly larger, so the whole board got a couple of mm wider in the process.

26.5mm*57.2mm

I think I'm gonna actually order this one, and see if it works.

--------------------------------------------

I've since looked at the most recent revision and noticed a couple of flaws in it. I've repaired those flaws, and I'm gonna sleep on it again, look at it with fresh eyes tomorrow, and probably order it.

Just a note that you have the Xbox power On and Power Ok marked incorrectly on your pinout.

 

Cheers

SS Dave

Soft modding is like masturbating, It gets the job done but it's nothing like the real thing.

[ttsgeb]

Is it? I definitely just copied the pinout from the sickmods one that's going around, and did some minor verifying myself for a sanity check.

[spotopolis]

Is this still alive at all? I'm wanting to build a slim xb myself. I already have my 1.6 system running on a 500gb ssd, and I have the hdmi hardware mod on the way. If I could manage to shrink the PSU, that would be fantastic.

 

I tried downloading the zipped files above, but the link isnt working.

I have another 1.6 system and a 1.4(I think?) System that I have for parts/testing. I'm not too good with schematics, but I can solder and build if I have something to go off of. Wouldn't mind trying to replicate a build and help this project keep going. I know a lot of people out there could use something like this.

 

Edited November 12, 2020 by spotopolis
Spelling

[ttsgeb]

The project is very dead, but I just put the zip on gitlab if you want to work on it.  The prototypes are also still up for grabs if anyone is interested in parts that don't work.
https://gitlab.com/ttsgeb/xboxPSU

[spotopolis]

13 hours ago, ttsgeb said:

The project is very dead, but I just put the zip on gitlab if you want to work on it.  The prototypes are also still up for grabs if anyone is interested in parts that don't work.
https://gitlab.com/ttsgeb/xboxPSU

What all parts do you have available? How much to just get all of it from you?